Low sulfur & Ultra lo sulfur fuel SAME PRICE??

[Gary - K7GLD]

sent an email to Valero regarding the LSD pumps I fill up with in Victoria, TX. Here is their response:

WAY TO GO Forrest!



Nothing shuts down critics and disbelievers better than PROOF! :-laf:-laf



Altho' I have experienced quite a few who really die HARD! :-laf:-laf

 

[BrianJ]

sent an email to Valero regarding the LSD pumps I fill up with in Victoria, TX. Here is their response:

I will gladly stand corrected given your information. And I will also eat some crow on the following, as it corrects my previous comments and what I had been led to believe...



Provided by the EPA...

Although ULSD fuel is the dominant highway diesel fuel produced, EPA does not require service stations and truck stops to sell ULSD fuel. Therefore, ULSD fuel might not be available at every service station or truck stop. Diesel retailers may choose to sell Low Sulfur Diesel fuel instead of ULSD fuel until December 1, 2010, when only ULSD fuel will be available for highway use. The industries involved in the transition are doing all they can to minimize potential inconveniences during the conversion to ULSD fuel.

However, I will also stand by my previous comments that LSD is VERY rare for on highway use, and has been virtually wiped out over the last year or so, with the following quote from the EPA...

Data from EPA's ULSD pump survey from the Fourth Quarter of 2006 through the First Quarter of 2008 indicate that nearly 97 percent of highway diesel fuel pumps are now dispensing Ultra Low Sulfur Diesel (ULSD).

So while facts and PROOF (Gary) indeed indicate there is a small pocket of LSD available in the metropolis of Victoria, TX, facts and PROOF also indicate that LSD has virtually gone the way of the do-do bird with a whopping 3% of the retail market.



To ForrestNearing, thanks for the debate and help in clarifying part of the LSD/ULSD picture.



Gary, um, well no comment to you if you don't have anything productive to add or care to post any facts or PROOF by doing some of your own legwork to stand on. Facts and PROOF show I was hardly shut down, and I have no problem "manning up" and admitting my error on the part that I was wrong. Facts and PROOF show that most of my comments regarding the availability of LSD are correct (i. e. only 3% of all retail pumps :-laf:-laf).

 

[Forrest Nearing]

oh don't get me wrong, I'm pretty dang hard-headed, and it's bit me a few times in the past, but I'll eat my crow with the best of them



I realize that in a lot of areas, LSD is essentially non-existant... I believe it's currently illegal in California actually!



but, down where I live, you can still find it pretty frequently. For whatever reason, every other pump in Victoria, TX has it!



I know of a few stations in Houston proper that have it.

 

[JDiepstra]

I will gladly stand corrected given your information. And I will also eat some crow on the following, as it corrects my previous comments and what I had been led to believe...



Provided by the EPA...







However, I will also stand by my previous comments that LSD is VERY rare for on highway use, and has been virtually wiped out over the last year or so, with the following quote from the EPA...





So while facts and PROOF (Gary) indeed indicate there is a small pocket of LSD available in the metropolis of Victoria, TX, facts and PROOF also indicate that LSD has virtually gone the way of the do-do bird with a whopping 3% of the retail market.



To ForrestNearing, thanks for the debate and help in clarifying part of the LSD/ULSD picture.



Gary, um, well no comment to you if you don't have anything productive to add or care to post any facts or PROOF by doing some of your own legwork to stand on. Facts and PROOF show I was hardly shut down, and I have no problem "manning up" and admitting my error on the part that I was wrong. Facts and PROOF show that most of my comments regarding the availability of LSD are correct (i. e. only 3% of all retail pumps :-laf:-laf).

Wow, maybe you should get a clue. Gary has almost 10,000 posts here and has forgotten more about Cummins and diesel than you will probably ever know. He is one of the most productive members on this site and has presented an awful lot of proof in thousands of posts, to the effect that if he says something, he doesn't even need to supply proof. I also knew that Forrest was right while everyone else was argueing with him. Now, I will stop kissing butts and get to work!

 

[BrianJ]

Wow, maybe you should get a clue. Gary has almost 10,000 posts here and has forgotten more about Cummins and diesel than you will probably ever know. He is one of the most productive members on this site and has presented an awful lot of proof in thousands of posts, to the effect that if he says something, he doesn't even need to supply proof. I also knew that Forrest was right while everyone else was argueing with him. Now, I will stop kissing butts and get to work!

Maybe you should get a clue... First off, post count has nothing to do with productivity. That being said, I agree he has contributed a lot to this forum, and I have been reading his posts on here a lot longer than you have based on your "join date". However, he (and you) contributed nothing productive to this thread.



Secondly, you have no idea what I know or don't know about Cummins. I may be a master mechanic as far as your concerned. Nothing I posted in this thread has to do with the Cummins or any diesel engine.



Thirdly, I was not proven wrong by any means, all along the gist of what I was stating is that LSD is virtually non existant for retail on road use, and guess what, I proved that point (97% of retail pumps are ULSD), while Forrest also proved his point of local availability for himself. And I also admitted the fact that I was off base on the requirements of retail establishments to carry ULSD.



Forrest and I seem to have come to a mutual conclusion on this, so basically all you are doing is trying to add to the fire by trolling. As you stated Gary has been a productive member here, so I am sure he has the ability to address my comments himself, should he choose. I have much respect for him as a member and most of his posts, however, his post in this thread contributed nothing other than trying to showboat off of someone elses information.

 

[JDiepstra]

Ok well first, I didn't say that post count has to do with productivity. Reread that one.



Second, your posts have shown that you are definately not a master mechanic.



Third, don't try to backtrack your way out of it. You said multiple times that LSD wansn't available, other than maybe for off-road use.



Fourth, you, the one who ripped Gary for presenting no proof, provided no proof at all. All you could say was that you heard from some people and sources that you trust and that you base your opinion on indicators. Obviously your people speak about what they do not know, and, you can't decipher indicators well at all. You even went as far as to say it was pointless to continue debating it, which was pretty much true if you are Forrest. It is pointless to debate with someone who is wrong, but knows they are right.



Anyway, I do give you credit for admmitting you are wrong, but come on, you say that you and Forrest came to agreement? He proved you wrong and you call it a mutual concluson.



And yes, sometimes I do just like to stir the pot. Works every time!

 

[JDiepstra]

So back to the topic of this post... I don't think anyone working at the gas station has much of a clue about anything related to diesel fuel. Sometime early Spring I asked the district manager of the local Speedway stations if they were still running the winter blend of diesel fuel. He looked at me and said huh? I explained that in cold areas like Michigan #1 and #2 diesel were blended together or other types of additives were used to keep it from gelling up. He looked at me like I was speaking Chinese and gave the answer I would expect from a district manager... Hmmmm, I had no idea there were different kinds of diesel but I will look into that for you. So, I see the guy about a month later and asked him what he found out. Of course, as expected, UH, I haven't had a chance to check on that yet. DUH.

 

[Gary - K7GLD]

Gary has been a productive member here, so I am sure he has the ability to address my comments himself, should he choose. I have much respect for him as a member and most of his posts, however, his post in this thread contributed nothing other than trying to showboat off of someone elses information.

FIRST, I appreciate the supporting comments some here have made on my behalf - I've certainly received enough of the "other" kind in the past! :-laf:-laf



BUT, I agree - post count is meaningless in and of itself - anyone can spout off endlessly, and contribute NOTHING of value to the board in general - just visit the Politics and "other" forums and see for yourself!



"Showboat" - well, call it whatever pleases you - but again, I've been active here long enough to witness the volume of members who are relatively uneducated - and clueless as to spelling, sentence structure and reasonable etiquette - nor are they aware of items like spell checkers and web search engines that easily provide answers to the multitude of questions asked needlessly, again and again, repeatedly, on boards and forums like this one.



SO, when I see someone like Forrest go to the effort to find actual PROOF to back up his statements, I seriously and enthusiastically applaud him, because that sort of action is damn scarce on boards like this, and too often replaced by endless and pointless bickering at the hands of those far more inclined to endlessly argue, than to dig for the answers themselves.



So, if you want to call it "Showboating", have at it - and I'll continue to "Showboat", and applaud those intelligent enough to know how to spell (or at least use a spell checker!), use search engines, and otherwise produce well thought out posts in these forums, as well as to debate in a method that relies upon mature use of reason and logic, rather than schoolyard bluster and personal attack.



And no, none of the above descriptions are aimed at you - but rather, offered to more properly describe my own motivation in commenting openly to Forrest as I did...



Regards



Gary

 

[BrianJ]

Points well taken Gary, and thanks for taking the time to spell them out diplomatically, unlike what others choose to do.



My main point is that I was not completely proven wrong by anything, and I in fact also provided proof that LSD is VERY limited in it's availability. It just so happens that Forrest is in an area that most likely accounts for much of the 3% that is available via retail outlets. Quite frankly, both Forrest and myself proved our points.



JD, I have read many of your posts as well, and quite frankly I will just hold my tongue as to not take this to a personal level, unlike what you chose to do.

 

[JDiepstra]

Oh come on Brian, just say it, I don't know anything about Cummins diesels or any other diesels for that matter. In fact, I sometimes have to delete the g in Cummins before I post. Not really. I just know I like my Cummins and it is awesome. Honestly, I don't recall any of your previous posts, and I certainly didn't take the time to look them up. Sorry if I upset you. Like you said, post count doesn't equate to knowledge or whatever. Just look at mine, over 700 and no clue!

 

[Forrest Nearing]

man, let's not get too heated here guys! It seems like the embers are cooling here, but let's go ahead and douse it out for good!



we're just having a discussion, and I happened to be right for once!

 

[JDiepstra]

Yeah honestly I have never gotten mad at anyone on this site.

 

[Buffalo]

For what it's worth, here in Phoenix,AZ. , we have two truck stops (that I'm aware of), the Quick Trip & the Flying J that carry LSD. The signage indicates that, & I have spoken with fuel delivery drivers that service the two truck stops that have backed up the signage.



The "QT" sells ONLY LSD. However, the "J" sells both ULSD & LSD in their Auto Pumps. The "QT" is a very new station (maybe a year old, or a bit more) & they recently installed large signs indicating the availability of LSD, only. The delivery driver said that LSD is all they would be selling until it was no longer available. One evening while I was filling up, a gentleman with a new Dodge/6. 7 Cummins, behind me, started talking to me & I mentioned that he really needed the ULSD. He did not realize their were two fuels, available. I sent him to the "J", down the road, & told him which pumps had ULSD.



I have never seen a regular gas station, here, that sells LSD. They all have ULSD.



I'm not trying to throw fuel on the fire, just reporting what my experiences have been in my home town.



Joe F.

 

[SShafranko]

Here i NJ LSD is rare but it exists. It is 20 cents cheaper than ULSD.

 

[Dan Simmonds]

I frequently fill up at a Flying J in Sunbury, OH - truck lanes 1 & 2 only are labeled 'ULSD' in huge, bright lettering atop the fuel island you can see easily from 1/4 mile away. The remaining 28 pumps are only identified at the pump with the small '500 ppm LSD' sticker. I've seen other Flying J's with similar fuel identification like this around the country in the last couple months.

 

[ssanders60]

Get A Load Of This!!!

Today I bought fuel at the Walmart store located at Beach Bvd and

Southside BVd. Jax, Fl. , and it is 500 PPM LSD. It has been 15 PPM

ULSD for as long as 15 PPM has been in existance.

I always notice the color of my fuel since the 80's, today I noticed it

was a deep yellow green, I thought, my that looks like the old stuff and

then I looked at the sign and to my surprise there it was 500 PPM, a complete change. The price of course is 4. 68, Raceway now has

diesel for 4. 65.

Now I bought fuel here at W/mart a few days ago as usual and it was 15PPM.

I did read a few days ago that Velero Refinery located in Tex.

has contracted with W/mart to furnish their diesel.

This is a Murphy Oil co. Station. You Texas folks may know if there is a

relation between Velara (sp) and Murphy, if any. This refinery in the article

was saying that if Dolly tore up any of the refineries they could not compensate with the diesel that they made at that plant due to the contract with W/mart.

 

[Buffalo]

I have to correct myself!!!

Yesterday, I "topped-off" my '91. 5 W-250 at the Quick Trip, here in Phoenix, AZ. & took a good look at the new signs near the pumps. At least two pumps are labelled ULSD, now. So, it is available @ the QT, now. Otherwise, everything else is LSD.



My apologies for giving the wrong information out , earlier.



Joe F.