Engine/Transmission (1994 - 1998) Lubricate The Pump

[The patriot]

I never did it, but the guys that I knew that did it strained it through a cheese cloth first.

These guys did 56 quarts to a 100 gallon tank, all in one load.

Must have really made some smoke for a while... .

Eric

 

[illflem]

Not for me!!! I have almost 100 gallons of used motor oil if you guys want it.

 

[keimmmo]

I rigged a gravity fed filter system using multiple used oil filters... keep the price down and efficiency up. Worked well, but slow and a mess. I have found that if I put the oil in gallon jugs and let them sit in a warm place for a couple of weeks everything heavy pretty well settles out. I use the top 3 1/2 quarts or so and dump the rest.



I use any motor oil from either gas or diesel motors. ATF is a great injector cleaner but doesn't lubricate much. Avoid non-detergent oils and hydraulic oil. NEVER use gear lube or oil with additives like STP!!! They plug the injectors! I don't recommend using synthetic oil either... doesn't burn well.



I am running a pusher pump mounted low in front of the tank. It is a cheap one and I carry a spare... not that I have ever had to replace one. The sock in the tank and screen in the pump is sufficient to protect that pump. I run a 2 qt spin-on filter between the pusher and original. The filter and base are Cummins items from the big rigs. Cheap and readily available in both US and Mexico.

____________________

2001. 5 QC 4X4... LOADED

1992 Extended cab 4X4 with 300,000 miles

 

[Vaughn MacKenzie]

I don't filter my oil, but I let it set at least 2-3 weeks to let the heavier stuff settle out, then I didn't pour out the last pint or so out of the bottom. Over the last 15K fuel filter change I ran 6 gallons of oil through and still had great fuel pressure at the end, didn't affect the fuel filter.



I agree on the gear oil, definitely a No-No. . . that stuff would be very metallic loaded anyway! As for synthetic engine oil, I have been burning that and it does seem to burn fine. . . at least my MPG does not drop.



One thing I always do when burning up waste oil. . . I don't do it unless I'm headed out on a long road trip and I'll burn it all on the highway, when the engine is good and hot and has a bit of a load. Running it in town you would probably run the risk of gumming things up because I'm sure cylinder temps aren't high enough, at least in the first couple of miles until things warm up.



Vaughn

 

[keimmmo]

Vaughn,



I tried burning Amsoil in the '92. It killed the power and economy and just kind of dripped out of the tail pipe. I was never so glad to get rid of a tank of fuel in my life! I haven't tried it in the '01. Might work better. Might be a difference in brands of oil too.



I never thought about the problem of city driving. I rarely start my truck without having it fully warmed up before shutting down. I use oil in the fuel ALL THE TIME! I also live in a warm climate.



Just wondering. Has anyone watched exhaust temps and compared the difference with and without oil in the fuel? The old '92 has no waste gate and it definitely has more power with oil in the fuel. I suspect is burns hotter and spins the turbo faster.



Steve Keim

_________________________

2001. 5 QC 4X4... Loaded

1992 extended cab 4X4 with 300,000 miles

 

[Missouri Mule]

The question is when your adding oil to diesel fuel how much is it lowering your cetane? Cetane is your power in diesel fuel.



I use amsoil diesel fuel additive (mainly because it is easy to get) about once a year, if it needs it or not. I use it mostly for its cleaning properties.

 

[keimmmo]

I have no knowledge or understanding of the ratings of diesel fuel. I just buy what ever is cheapest and add the oil. I burn enough ATF that I have never felt much need for special additives/cleaners.



Before starting to add oil to my fuel, I did enough research to be convinced that it was not damaging. I talked to an Ag-economics teacher at a major university. He had done a study of burning used oil in farm tractors. He put me in contact with a major trucking fleet that filters it's own oil and burns it in it's trucks. I was also able to tour the Cummins engine assembly plant in San Louis Potosi, Mexico, and talked to one of the reps there. Everyone agreed that it is good for the motors and saves money.



I have not had any trouble with my motors and the injection system on the '92 ran 248,000 before I touched it. Must not hurt too much...



Concerning power, where I drive most of the time the roads are rough enough that I have enough power to tear my travel trailer in half!!! I have had modified vehicles before and love them, but this is my daily driver and it does everything I need just like it is.



Steve

 

[Blakers]

Originally posted by keimmmo

The old '92 has no waste gate and it definitely has more power with oil in the fuel. I suspect is burns hotter and spins the turbo faster.

If you add motor oil to your fuel oil you are increasing it's BTU because the motor is a larger carbon chain.



I think you guys who put drain oil in your fuel tanks are nuts and are taking an awful chance of ruining your fuel pumps and injectors. There's a lot of nasty stuff in that drain oil that you can't filter out - heavy metals and dissolved solids that will coke up on your injectors and pistons. It's not worth the risk of ruining an engine. If you want to burn heavier oils, go buy new oil or find a source for a heavier than #2 fuel oil.



If you still want to burn used motor oil, I would highly suggest that you at least run it through a filter press to remove the small particles. Cheesecloth won't cut it.



Hey I burn drain oil in my wood stove and you should see the residue that is left behind at the the feed line.



Blake

 

[keimmmo]

Again, 248,000 miles on the original pump and injectors... must really be doing a lot of damage don't you think? It was still giving the same MPG as when new.



I toured a Cummins engine assembly plant just before buying the new '92. My guide was a factory rep from Great Britain. I'll not post the whole conversation because it is kind of long for here. (I'll send it to anyone who gives me an e-mail address. ) Bottom line is he RECOMMENDED using used motor oil in the fuel!!! He stated that the factory filter will remove anything harmful to the pump. Has worked so far.



I also run a large pre filter on my truck since I know I am getting more dirt in the fuel with used oil... at least that is most of the time. Have you ever bought a tank of fuel that plugged your filters almost immediately? I have!!! And, several times over the years!!! My fuel with oil is cleaner than that crap!



There are plenty of tricks that WORK that you won't find in the factory shop manual. Just because they aren't in the manual doesn't mean they are bad...



Steve

 

[Midnite]

I don't think keimmmo or Vaughn are nuts at all for burning used oil. Just look at Cummins' own "Centinel" system--it takes a small amount of used oil and dumps it into the fuel system, and then replaces that with new oil from a tank. For an overview see:



http://billgatliff.com/articles/centinel/centinel.pdf



I haven't tried burning used oil in my truck, but I am thinking about it, just to make disposal easier. From my research, the only issues (assuming dino oil) seem to be 1) "cleanliness" of the oil, and 2) ratio of oil to fuel used. Engines using Centinel tend to use some sort of bypass filtering on the oil, and add the oil to the fuel system in small amounts. Unfortunately the above .pdf file doesn't elaborate on the exact rate it delivers oil to the fuel tank.



To deal with #1, I plan on leaving the oil set for a bit to let particles settle out. For #2, given that I have a 30 gallon tank in my '92, if I add 1 quart of oil for each tank of fuel, I end up with just over . 8% oil--less than one percent! If I double that, it's still only 1. 7% oil.



I say leave the fear, uncertainty, and doubt to the Ford and Chevy guys and research the benefits, hazards, and side effects of things like this for ourselves.



Mike

 

[keimmmo]

Finally! Another voice of reason! Thank you Mike!



On my '92 I kept the mixture at about 40-50 to 1 unless I was blessed with plenty of thin multi-weight. (Straight weights make more smoke than Multi-weights and the thicker the oil the more it smokes. ) That was usually 2 quarts to a fill.



I kept several quart bottles of used oil in the truck bed all the time. When I filled the tank I would multiply the gallons by 4 to see how many quarts I had put in and how many quarts of oil I needed to get the desired ratio.



On the '01, I can run 20-25 to 1 without smoke!!! (20 to 1 is 5%. ) I can usually add a gallon of oil at every fill!



I live in central Mexico most of the time. I have been in villages that were a 9 hour drive from the nearest filling station!!! I have come in many times on kerosene, gasoline cut with used oil, and even cooking oil! The old '92 was a very forgiving beast! One friend said I would burn cobs and coal in it if I could figure out how to liquefy it and run it through the pump... he was probably right. Still, I point out the service it gave me. I must have been really hard on it! And you guys are concerned that you will ruin your motor with a little used oil???



Steve

 

[redram]

No one is doubting your success... . but 248,000 miles on a set of injectors is nothing for a Cummins. Many run to double of that without having to work on the injectors... .



It's not the motor that you're potentially going to cause problems, it's the fuel injectors. As Dr Joe mentioned, clearances in a high pressure fuel injector are extremely close. Used engine oil contains all kinds of particulates (soot, by products of combustion such as acids, sulfates, ash content, wear metals from the engine) and unless you are filtering down to less than 1 micron, these types of contaminants could cause deposits and / or premature wear in the nozzels / plungers of the injectors.



A diesel fule additive can be any of the following (but usually not all at the same time): a biocide (to kill bugs that grow in the water which is in all diesel fuel), a pour point depressant (to stop gelling of paraffin wax crystals at low temperatures), a lubricity additive, and a cetane booster.



An ashless two cycle engine oil (TCW III synthetic) is not going to increase power but would provide lubricity.



Most four cycle engine oils contain 1. 0-1. 5% ash content when new and would be dirtier when used, usually 1-2% solids content. Not the best thing to put into a high pressure fuel system with tolerances in the millionths of an inch.



With that said, adding used motor oil or even brand new four cycle motor oil is generally not the recommended course of action for long life of the fuel injectors.

Now, if you live near San Luis Potosi and have to compensate for fuel quality, that would be considered to be outside of the norm.

 

[JConley]

If it was as bad as many on this thread are stating, wouldnt Cummins say so and not recommend it? You would think so, but that is not the case. Cummins says go for it, and they are more conserned about these engines that most of us. Call Cummins yourself and ask them about mixing motor oil in the fuel.



I have used old oil in my fuel, and it worked fine. I will probably start doing it again after reading this thread.



Its your truck, do what you want, and drive on.

 

[illflem]

The Cummins Centinel system wasn't designed because it's good for the engine, it was designed so you don't have to change the oil and dispose of the used. It's not that the used oil is good or bad for your engine, my feeling is that it's just a waste of my time to deal with it. Big deal if I get $4. 50 worth of free fuel out of an oil change. I can spend the same amount of my time doing something else, save much more than $4. 50 and won't even have to get my hands oily. If you have lots of time on your hands go for it, I'd rather go fishing.

 

[Blakers]

I wonder what the polymers used to enhance viscosity do to your fuel pump and injectors? All those acids from combustion, detergents, dissolved solids, as well as the particulates?



I think besides filtering it through a filter press, I would run it through a vacuum distillation process as well before using it in my diesel.



Now if you were in some backwoods country and you had to outrun the natives and you only had drain oil to burn, then go for it.



Or if you have an old Rumely Oil Pull tractor, feed it to that beast. You can't hardly hurt them.



Blake

 

[Vaughn MacKenzie]

Originally posted by keimmmo

On the '01, I can run 20-25 to 1 without smoke!!! (20 to 1 is 5%. ) I can usually add a gallon of oil at every fill!

That is exactly how much I use, I add a gallon to a 25-30 gallon fillup.

I live in central Mexico most of the time. . . . I have come in many times on kerosene, gasoline cut with used oil, and even cooking oil!

Steve

Just curiuous, what part of Mexico? I've travelled in Mexico a fair amount but that was years ago. I am hoping in 2003 or 2004 I can load my truck up and take a long road trip possibly as far as Chiapas and Guatemala. There is some beautiful country down there and lots of interesting things to see. Is the fuel pretty bad down there? I'll never forget what it was like in 1975 (when I was a kid) we drove the slow, twisty road from Mexico City to Veracruz and the diesel rigs climbing the mountains emitted monstrous clouds which smelled very acrid, putrid and downright disgusting. It made me really sick. I can still remember clearly what it smelled like and to this day I have never smelled anything even close to it. When you have naturally aspirated diesels that are in poor condition pulling grades to 10,000 feet on less-than-quality fuel. . . yeah, there was smoke!!!!



Vaughn

 

[keimmmo]

Yeh, Vaughn, that is about like it was when I first came to Mexico 17 years ago! Things are better today. More of the rigs have turbos... though far from all. The fuel is better too. It was really good for a few years until they started cutting the sulfer content about 5 years ago! Aside from often being a little dirty, I would say it is better today than U. S. fuel. I get better economy on it than American fuel... but certanily not enough to justify paying $2. 00 per gallon!!! (Gasoline is around $2. 40 per gallon!!!)



I run a pre-filter that I can get both here and in the States. I REALLY RECOMMEND a pusher pump and filter for Mexico!!! Bring extras of all your factory filters... they are difficult to impossible to find down here!!!



I live in Queretaro, in the very heart of the country. If you want more info, give me an address where we can communicate off the register. I'll go ahead and post my address for anyone who wants specifics about my above comments on using oil in the fuel. I can be contacted personally at <keimmmo@prodigy.net. mx>.



Steve

 

[keimmmo]

What happened? I put my address in the last letter, but it disappeared!!! Must be against the rules or something. I have only been a registered member for a couple of weeks, so I am new to this. If there is a way to communicate directly, let me know how to do it.



Steve

keimmmo@prodigy.net. mx

 

[bnelson]

The old Luberfiner filter off of an older big diesel rig used to be the recommended way to filter used motor oil for use mixed with the fuel. Any neighbor's boneyard or a salvage yard dealing in diesel rigs should have one cheap. The new filter ellement should be less than $10. 00. Gravity feed through this should be plenty adequate, just keep moisture out of the finished product. Back to history, the compression ignition engine, named for it's inventor, Mr. Diesel, was originally an attempt to burn coal dust in Germany. Mixing corn oil, canola oil, etc. with diesel fuel works. In fact it was being researched as both a market for U. S. farm crops, and as a pollution reducing fuel. One commentator claimed that following a test rig left the air smelling like french fries. There are some Cummins engines in a commuter bus fleet that run on compressed natural gas. I'm not sure, but I understood that these were a direct injection, compression ignition engine. The U. S military had quite a few trucks powered by a "Multi-fuel" engine that was susposed to do well on anything from "Dog-water" gasoline to jet fuel. Stop and think; keep the fuel (whatever it is) clean, and you can make a lot of stuff make your CTD go down the road just fine.



By the way, Cummins bought the Onan Corp. , and found the engine we know as the 6BT family as a generator motor. Onan Corp. was formerly a subsidiary of Studebaker. So we are really all in love with a Studebaker product. Which, by the way, explains the long life of the engines. My Dad used to say that you could never wear out a Studebaker. You had to finally just get sick and tired of it and throw it away.

 

[SEmerson]

I dump all my drain oil in my 24. I have for a long time.