Engine/Transmission (1998.5 - 2002) Mach 1.5's and Towing - Not what I expected.

[lkuykendall]

Let me start this thread by saying that I am in now way running down F1 EDM injectors, I feel that they are one of the best products on the market but I am not happy with the results of my 1. 5’s when it comes to towing.



A few months ago I decided to upgrade my injectors from 275’s to F1 Mach 1. 5’s in my 2001. 5 which is used exclusively for towing (6spd, Edge EZ, BHAF, 4” straight exhaust, HTBG turbo). Prior to making this decision I had read numerous posts where people said EGT’s were not an issue with some even claiming to actually see a drop in temps. This has not been the case for me. This pickup is not driven often but 99% of the time that it is used I have a trailer behind it. The load will vary: 21’ bass boat, flat beds, 40’ enclosed (VERY HEAVY), 36’ cattle trailer etc… I have plenty of power with my current setup but in my opinion power is useless if it is not usable. I know some will think I am too conservative about the temps but I start backing off around 1050 and will not let it to go above 1100 pre-turbo. To give you an example, I left Lubbock headed for east Texas Wed. night pulling a 20’ flatbed loaded with a 1000 gallon propane tank and a 500 gallon propane tank (both tanks were empty). Outside temperature was in the 50’s and on the rolling hills between Lubbock and Dallas on highway 114 I could easily hit 1100 degrees with the cruise set on 65 mph (25 + lbs of boost on steady pull and can easily hit 38 lbs if wanted) and on one or two occasions I had to kick the cruise off to keep it from climbing any higher.



I have tried two different turbos; the stock HX35 and the HTBG with little difference between the two.



I spent $700 on these injectors (updated Mach 1. 5’s) and now I wonder if should have stuck with the 275’s or should I have gotten the 1. 6’s for towing? Again, I am not trying to talk bad about F1 injectors I am just not happy with the unusable power that I currently have. Does anybody else pull heavy with Mach 1. 5’s and have some setup suggestions for me?



If I can’t figure something out I may have a set up 1. 5’s for sale with about 1000 miles on them for someone who doesn’t tow heavy.



Len

 

[SnoKing]

Run it up to 1250 degree's Pre-Turbo and enjoy the power. SNOKING

 

[Diesel Freak]

Negative Ghost Rider!!!!!



Once you start tweaking, that 1250F pre-turbo EGT spec starts to drop for continuous use. Why? Peak compustion temps are higher... even if EGT is still the same. I also back off at 1100F pre-turbo when towing.



The issue is the HTBG turbo... . lkuykendall is correct it ain't much better than a stock turbo. He really needs something bigger. Personally I do not know why this turbo is on the market... . it's just too small to be of any use... . especially on a truck that makes over 350 HP such as this one.



When my truck was in the same basic state of tune (DD3's, and Edge EZ) I was at about 350 HP, and the HX40 kept is nice and cool. If he were to go this route, he may need to adjust the wastgate on the HX40 to get it into the sweet spot faster (33-38 psi) but he will also need to keep RPM above 1650.



According to his sig, he has 3. 54 gears. At 65mph, it would be a good idea to drop to 5th and slow to 60 MPH to keep things cooler.

 

[Gary - K7GLD]

On my '02, the mods are F1 1. 6's, the BHAF, Comp and full 4 inch exhaust.



We tow about 14-15K GCWR, lots in the steeper grades, and I RARELY see above 1100 EGT - and that only if traffic or road conditions force me to lug down to the lower RPM range. I have enough power with the 1. 6's that I never run above 3x3 in the hills, and usually 1x1 out in the flats where the power of the 1. 6's is easily enough and EGTS hover at about 500-650, and I am using to lowest Comp setting purely to turn power and smoke DOWN...



My max boost runs about 34 PSI - I couldn't be happier towing with the 1. 6's - but a heavier load might affect my results - dunno...

 

[Graphic man]

On my '02, the mods are F1 1. 6's, the BHAF, Comp and full 4 inch exhaust.



We tow about 14-15K GCWR, lots in the steeper grades, and I RARELY see above 1100 EGT - and that only if traffic or road conditions force me to lug down to the lower RPM range. I have enough power with the 1. 6's that I never run above 3x3 in the hills, and usually 1x1 out in the flats where the power of the 1. 6's is easily enough and EGTS hover at about 500-650, and I am using to lowest Comp setting purely to turn power and smoke DOWN...



My max boost runs about 34 PSI - I couldn't be happier towing with the 1. 6's - but a heavier load might affect my results - dunno...

WOW 500-650 egt's ????????



even when my truck was stock i could never get that low running empty



what type of gage are you running?



comp box on 3x5 running empty at 60 mph i sit on 700-800 egt





Scott

 

[Gary - K7GLD]

WOW 500-650 egt's ????????



even when my truck was stock i could never get that low running empty



what type of gage are you running?



comp box on 3x5 running empty at 60 mph i sit on 700-800 egt





Scott

I'm running Westach guages - and that EGT *can* be forced up to 1250+, but I have to really lug the engine up a steep grade under heavy load to do it. My EGT used to run about 600-700 empty too, before the 4 inch exhaust, injectors and BHAF, then typical EGT dropped about 200 degress across the board...



OH, and the combo also cut turbo spoolup by about 2/3 - great around town unloaded... Oo.

 

[NIsaacs]

I agree with SNOWKING, put your foot in that puppy. I run all three of my CTD powered trucks 1000* post turbo, all day if need be. They are all slightly modified w/stock turbos. At 1050-1100* pre turbo you are wasting the power of the Cummins.





"NICK"

 

[Graphic man]

I'm running Westach guages - and that EGT *can* be forced up to 1250+, but I have to really lug the engine up a steep grade under heavy load to do it. My EGT used to run about 600-700 empty too, before the 4 inch exhaust, injectors and BHAF, then typical EGT dropped about 200 degress across the board...



OH, and the combo also cut turbo spoolup by about 2/3 - great around town unloaded... Oo.

yeah i run the same and i can hit 1400-1500 egt on 5x5







Scot

 

[Diesel Freak]

yeah i run the same and i can hit 1400-1500 egt on 5x5







Scot

heh heh on the dyno I can burry the pyro 1500+ in less than 8 secconds!!!... . on the street is it is worse!!!!



I rarely have to turn on the "box".



NIsaacs, 1000F post turbo? either your pyro is out of spec, or you have been lucky... oh nevermind. . you are still running stock auto trannies too.





A four inch and free flowing intake did nothing to lower EGT on my truck (put them on when I was running 275's and the infamous Power Puck obviously I was not running any huge ammounts of fuel) With the stock turbo, I could hit 1200F at 30 psi. Same setup with DD3's and EGT went to 1300 and boost was 38 PSI with the stock turbo. Same fueling and a HX40, egt dropped to 1200 and boost dropped to 30 psi WOT. If I were to have adjusted the wastgate to bump boost some, I prolly could have dropped EGT close to another 100F.

 

[Gary - K7GLD]

yeah i run the same and i can hit 1400-1500 egt on 5x5







Scot

5x5 might make a difference - I just never have NEEDED 5x5 with my setup, at least not and stay anywhere near the legal speed limit!

 

[JJ Jackson]

yeah i run the same and i can hit 1400-1500 egt on 5x5







Scot

Scot, I think you have the HY 35 turbo not like Gary's HX 35. That turbo comes on the manual trannys. It makes a big difference to have a bigger exhaust housing, I believe it's 12cm not 9cm like yours.



My wife has an automatic and it does the same thing.



Len, I personally think you are being too easy on your Cummins. I always push mine to 1300* before I back off, and thats with stock HX35, Mach 2's and Comp on 5x5. And that is usually only at the top of long steep hills that I hit 1300*.



I've been doing it for 150K without a problem. Maybe I'm just lucky, don't know... ..... Good luck and hammer down dude... ... ... Jim

 

[Turbo Tim 1]

I'm not sure I'd take advice from a guy with this in his signature: :-laf

Fuzzy Pink steering wheel cover and Hello Kitty Floor mats

 

[Sixpack]

Len, I too upgraded from 275's to F1 1. 6's and had to learn to drive my truck differently. I used to be able to tow alot more in 5th and 6th gear at a lower egt's. With the bigger sticks I have to run at higher rpm's and more in the 4th and 5th gear to keep temps in check when pulling the passs or steep grades. On the freeways, no issues at all in any gear. It isn't a problem, just a change in driving habits. BTW I weigh in at appx. 17500# CGVWR and still have the stock huffer.

 

[JJ Jackson]

I'm not sure I'd take advice from a guy with this in his signature: :-laf

Hey Tim, you're the first person to make a comment about that. One of my girls put that in and I just left it. :-laf

 

[NIsaacs]

My 1990 CTD powered Ford, 1991. 5 Dodge, and 2001 Dodge are all standard transmissions, all post turbo, all been run up to 1000* for extended periods and combined have over 500,000 miles. I don't think I have been lucky, I think the Cummins says it all





"NICK"

 

[PC12Driver]

lkuykendall, what size exhaust housing do you have on the 'BG?

 

[Vaughn MacKenzie]

Len, I personally think you are being too easy on your Cummins. I always push mine to 1300* before I back off, and thats with stock HX35, Mach 2's and Comp on 5x5. And that is usually only at the top of long steep hills that I hit 1300*.



I've been doing it for 150K without a problem. Maybe I'm just lucky, don't know... ..... Good luck and hammer down dude... ... ... Jim

If you only peak at 1300 briefly then back out of it you'll probably be OK, but I can think of two 24 valve members who have toasted cylinder number 6 keeping the pyro at 1250 on a long grade. One was Jack Nutter (shooter) a few years ago, another member (can't recall his name) had climbed the same grade with the same load at 1250 without incident. . . but the last time his Cummins came up short, started knocking loudly and he also lost #6.



The higher you go on the pyro the less margin of safety you give yourself. IMO by the time you sustain 1250, especially BOMBed, your margin of safety is pretty much gone. . . you're playing Russia Roulette. (especially if you have a 12v or 24v or SO 3rd Gen since they have less piston cooling). Playing it safe I would say definitely no more than 1200, 1150 if you want to pad the comfort zone.



Vaughn

 

[lkuykendall]

PC12Driver,



My exhaust housing is 14 cm2.



Len

 

[NIsaacs]

Dang! How did I manage to get caught up in an EGT thread :{ I hope I don't get anyone steamed.



I started driving trucks before turbos, piston cooling and aftercoolers/intercoolers. This was driving Cummins, Cat, Detroit(General Motors) and Mack, however I will stick to just the Cummins. The 855 cid Cummins started life as a 250hp NA motor. It was soon turboed to 280hp, still without piston cooling. The industry average at this time was 1200* pre turbo. The next step up was 335hp, with piston cooling and 1300* as the new max temp. Then with the advent of aftercooling, the 350hp was born. This was with a turbo, piston cooling and aftercooler, still 1300* as max temp. This engine continued all the way to 420hp before the Big Cam was developed, still the original 855 cid. When the Big Cam come out so did the twin entry turbos and split pulse type exhaust manifolds. At this point the pyro was moved to post turbo and 1000* become the new standard max temp. This was done (my opinion only) because with the split manifold, you could only monitor three cylinders pre turbo. To me, all six cylinders, post turbo was/is better.



Yes, on a highly modified motor under quick acceleration and high rpm the post pyro is not quick enough, however sled pullers and drag racers don't have time to watch the pyro anyway and if they did they wouldn't let it matter even if it said 1600*



The max exhaust temp of 1300* pre and 1000* post is is only for low rpm, 1700-2100 the industry standard for Cummins motors for years. When you raise this rpm as Dodge did you change the rules. The higher you bring the rpm, the quicker and more often you have a power stroke, less time for the piston to cool between times. When this happens the egt become more critical and you will need a tempurature cushion.



Isspro, an old, long time pyro company makes color coded guages of pre turbo red line of 1300* or post turbo red line of 1000* this seems to work for me. Have I made any sense with all this





"NICK"

 

[JWick]

Well with a dodgezilla 14cm and ht3b22cm, I thought this would be a good twins towing set up, I do run mach 4's and 1x5 on the box and still get way hot, Does good @ 65 to 90mph towing but you can't lug down, found if I keep it around 2500rpms up hill I do fine, its slow but safe, 1000 deg, 25lb total boost and 11 to 13lb bottom charger boost. I have ran many different set ups and still dont't know whats the best. Keeping it stock I guess