Competition Manual beats an auto

[JL penner]

Line locks can help with dead dig boost control BTW.

This is what I was looking for. This is how you build 20 lbs of boost on the line with a manual trans. With the correct clutch, a line lock, and a driver that knows what he's doing, you have 100% of that trucks power going to the ground. With an auto, you will have some bit of converter slippage no matter what.

 

[JoshPeters]

Here is my one question to you... ... If a Manual is SOOOO Great... . why are the big truck boys running autos? Garmons, Jeff Prince, Fletcher, Scott Bentz, and Hoss are all running Autos. Some have indeed switched from a Manual to an Auto. Why? If a Manual is so much better, why are these guys running them?



Here's a question for you... . If you guys can shift a manual SO fast... lets see you do it in a sled pull. Are you feeling lucky today? An Automatic can do it.



Josh

 

[98slushbox]

As i wrote before, my brother (01HO) had a QC LB 6 spd. making over 500rwhp single charger truck on #2 only, he ran a time of 13. 3 @ 103

At the same time I had a 98. 5 24v QC LB auto that made right at 500rwhp with the same turbo as his and #2 only also. We both had 33 in. tires and same gears. I got my truck to run 12. 93 @ 102. Oh yeah, i left the line at about 15-18 lbs. of boost and he said he was leaving at about 20 or better. Both were in 4 wheel and both trucks spun all four just a bit.

To answer your question about making boost at the line with a man. He said he could hold the brake down and start letting clutch out at high rpms and started making boost. Just figured i'd throw that out there.

 

[TJSHOTROD]

The facts is autos are faster for drag racing diesel trucks hands down. Its like others have said all the fastest trucks have a auto for a reason. After this winter my truck will have a auto as well.



T. J.

 

[JasonCzerak]

Here is my one question to you... ... If a Manual is SOOOO Great... . why are the big truck boys running autos? Garmons, Jeff Prince, Fletcher, Scott Bentz, and Hoss are all running Autos. Some have indeed switched from a Manual to an Auto. Why? If a Manual is so much better, why are these guys running them?



Here's a question for you... . If you guys can shift a manual SO fast... lets see you do it in a sled pull. Are you feeling lucky today? An Automatic can do it.



Josh

I have never done a sled pull, and only seen them on TV. Yes, I'm a typical Detroit born and raised street boy with a good amount of off road experience with my old XJ. But I do understand the sled pull idea and what kinda forces are in place when y our pullin 20,000 or what ever pounds though dirt. heh.



Yes, and auto would work best here unless you have a clutch-less shift style trans in place. Becuase of the nature of an automagic, it slips between shifts and doesn't disconnect the drive line between shifts and you don't lose momentium.



Also, I believe the fact that most of these guys go auto, is _cost_. with these trucks it's easier to beef up an auto to handle 1500 foot pounds and 800hp for $4000 then find and custom install and fabracate a manual trans that would hold up with the kinda of shifting that is necessary

 

[SpicyJam]

Here's a question for you... . If you guys can shift a manual SO fast... lets see you do it in a sled pull. Are you feeling lucky today? An Automatic can do it.



Josh

Funny, but looking at some of the pics in IRP looks as if Van Haisley has a stick in his pulling truck... ..... hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm makes ya wonder.

Now for some facts about last night. First J/P chill out, geeeeezzzzzzzzze. You get on the defensive so quick, don't make me come over..... lol.

Now, Fat Kid and I went to the 1/8th mile last night and raced. Now the results, the best race we had was the last time we ran. The shifting shows in the slip.

We were both sleeping at the light,

Fat KId----------Me​

Reaction time:-----0. 312---------0. 313​

60ft:--------------2. 053---------2. 098​

330ft--------------5. 981---------6. 246​

MPH---------------75. 52---------74. 85​

660ft--------------9. 310----------9. 64​

So as you can see the diff is . 338 between myself and him. The 60ft times . 045 diff, shift, at 330 ft the diff now becomes . 265 We both agreed that a manual can be fast, I still think my truck is fast so I am happy. The hole shots were mine, but when boost is not built at the line the lead is soon lost, talk about a dead spot... lol. The 6 speed was in 5th by the time I reached the line, and we both agreed a 1/4 mile slip would show same results but maybe a different outcome, not sure, we only have the interstate to show that his truck can not out run mine. So I say to each his own. The Fat Kid and I run close to the same HP, his truck a ETC Short box, mine a ETH Long box.

BTW Good racing last night Fat Kid, other results... ... ... lol, I only made 5 passes, 3 missed shifts into 3rd, and that has never happend, so heading out now to take the shifter apart. The race was heads up not bracket. Fat Kid beat me... . 3 times Then beat a older Ford gasser with a 460 in it, beat a 69 Olds with a 455 in it, and a Power Stroke, and he let up for that one at the end crossing the line at 61mph. Now remember this was 1/8, but a blast. Later Jim.

 

[Green Machine]

BS Autos are fast and more consistant and that wins races hands down.

I run a 02 5 speed truck at a best of 14. 894 with 423hp 1150tq.

I can hit the line with maby 5-8 pounds of boost and then the clutch takes a crap.

No one can shift a 5 or 6 speed truck trannny faster than an auto. Maby in your 5. 0 mustang you can but not in a truck!

 

[glhs]

I made 383 rwhp and ran a 13. 68 @ 100. You need to shift faster . I NEVER power shift.

R/T: . 030

0-60 ft: 1. 96

1/8: 8. 74 @ 79

As I stated earlier equal weight trucks with equal rear wheel hp, tires and gear ratio, I would say if they are capable of 14s or slower, the manual would win if you can shift good. As you get faster than that the autos will start to widen the gap. Of course a manual in a heavy truck won't be as consistent at the track.

Kurt

 

[TurboTweaker]

Poor stroker boy thought something broke on my truck... . i coasted the last 200 ft. and still ran a 9. 33. that damn old ford gasser with the 460 got me sleeping at the tree the first time the next time i got him sleeping with a 0. 010 light and a win by . 246. you can find a lot of time in your reaction times alone. Jim nice job missing gears. You guys should have seen it Jim raced a little cycle and you couldn't see him any where till the board lit up with his 50 mph pass. the announcer was like theres a bike behind him somewhere whoops there he is.



The Fat Kid

Andy

 

[Highfinance97]

I still cant beat mt best of 15. 4 because of the tires roasting even with the shorter throw ( I need slicks!!!!) maybe somday ill get an auto$$$$$$

 

[SpicyJam]

You guys should have seen it Jim raced a little cycle and you couldn't see him any where till the board lit up with his 50 mph pass. the announcer was like theres a bike behind him somewhere whoops there he is.



The Fat Kid

Andy

I looked back for him once out the mirror, poor guy, but it was kind of funny. His nice yellow coat had a hint of soot in it the rest of the night. That anouncer was pretty cool though. He seems to really like the Cummins trucks, the tech guy is the coolest though.

 

[TJSHOTROD]

Spicyjam,

You have 35hp more than the Fat kid and he has a stock auto unless he has not updated his sig and you still lost. The trucks i race with built autos never lose the hole shot against me or anyone else they race unless they took a nap at the light.



I think the if you going to compare transmission's the BUILT AUTO wins every time against the built manual if the H. P. if the same. Even when the manual has a 100hp more.

T. J.

 

[SpicyJam]

Yes his sig is not updated, but let me tell ya why I have the hole shot, and this is pretty (ugly) hard on things. They had so much water in the burn out box there was no way to drive around. So I would smoke the rear tires to clean off the water and then hit 4 wheel. Once staged I held the motor at 2200 rpm and when it was time to go I would dump the clutch and nail the pedal at the same time. I would lurch out a full length on him, but my motor needed to regain itself now with the load and catch itself back to real world RPM, note the dead spot right there is where he then catches up and passes, note the 60ft times. I have a SB twin disc and line lock sitting here so I can try too launch in 3rd and with a load on the drive train, not such a SHOCKER then, but then again, I am Mr Truck Dragracer either. Nor do I wanna be, I just went out because of this thread. The twin disc is really for pulling so I can beat J/P... ... ... ... ..... lol.

 

[TurboTweaker]

I run a very stock auto! TC slips its normal 40% and the VB came out a of a 360 gasser so i can get the high Rpm shifts with my low power i stay on top of things. Hey jim what about that 1. 25 second head start i gave you one of the races what happened there? i thought you could "row" through the gears... ..... i love my stock transmission damn DC. it takes a beating with 150,000 on the clock. face it jim you suck at shifting Oo. < looks like you beating on the stearing wheel when you miss a shift! are you gonna beat JP by shifting in the pull?



The Fat Kid

Andy

 

[Hohn]

Back on topic.



I'd bet it takes probablyy 150hp more for a 6-speed to turn time comparable to an truck with a built auto.



These manual trannies just aren't built for racing-- the shift layout and effort is too great. The clutch is WAY too big, because it's designed to give max holding for minimum effort (thus, large diameter). A smaller clutch would have much less inertia, therefore the synchros can operate much faster, and you can shift faster.



A Five speed should race a lot better than a 6-speed would, because it has 1) fewer shifts and 2) a lighter, smaller clutch.



Racing a manual diesel pickup is pretty much insane if you are looking for a quick time. You need the right tool for the right job.



However, racing a manual trans truck can be a lot of FUN! I love the look on people's faces when they see this burly stick shift Dodge gaining on them or keeping up with them.



Oh, and you can believe what you want, but a properly driven manual will NOT outperform any auto. The opposite is far more likely to be true. Yes, the auto has some parasitic loss, but it makes up for that will torque multiplication and shift speed.



jlh

 

[SpicyJam]

I run a very stock auto! TC slips its normal 40% and the VB came out a of a 360 gasser so i can get the high Rpm shifts with my low power i stay on top of things. Hey jim what about that 1. 25 second head start i gave you one of the races what happened there? i thought you could "row" through the gears... ..... i love my stock transmission damn DC. it takes a beating with 150,000 on the clock. face it jim you suck at shifting Oo. < looks like you beating on the stearing wheel when you miss a shift! are you gonna beat JP by shifting in the pull?



The Fat Kid

Andy

WOW!!!!!!!!!!! Where did that come from? Rough night? So I miss a shift, did I **** and moan?, NO, I lose, that is all, simple enough. I am not sticking up for the the truck transmission, it is what it is, a truck transmission. I will keep it and just be happy... ... ... ... ... ..... man you guys need to chill, and I still think I can shift just fine. If I was to beat J/P or you in a pull... ... . then what? His or your trannys must be bad?, maybe the excuse would be I have more power, maybe since you both have open diffs would that be it?, since I know the sled operator he changed the sled for me. The list goes on and on and on. Guess this is when age and wisdom shows its gap. Saying that I am just an old duffer that don't know crap. Later Jim

 

[TurboTweaker]

Damn old duffers Oo. i know where everyone is coming from with this topic and i see all of there valid points. can we see some real world results? Spicyjam and myself have proven it, now lets see someone else prove it. by the way i only have 430hp so spicyjam has me by 55hp. and just so you know he was starting to catch me at the end. go out to a drag strip and see for your self guys ..... time to stop bench racing.



The Fat Kid

Andy

 

[glhs]

Highfinance97;

Do you have a posi in that? I met a guy having the same problem last weekend. He had one tire in the front and one in the back spinning a long way down the track.

100 - 150 more hp to beat an auto? Pleeeaaassseee! Maybe to do 11s or 12s but not 14s or 15s.

I do have a 6 speed clutch and flywheel.

Can't the 6 speed boys start off in 3rd? I don't know; just asking. I know their third is kinda like a 2 1/2 gear compared to 5 speeds.

Kurt

 

[SpicyJam]

The problem with starting out in 3rd for me is the clutch. The SB fe does not like the high revs, slips something awful, same goes for pulling with it. Not to say it is not a bad clutch, sticks like glue when it is engaged. I am just trying to do something that it was not intended for.



BTW Fat Kid, I did reset the shifter, helped but still is a 6spd shifter. I will play around with it some more.

 

[SpicyJam]

are you gonna beat JP by shifting in the pull?



The Fat Kid

Andy

I just wanted to remind you of a pull last year with a couple of manuals, remember? (no shifting here)... ... ... ... ... ... .....

#8

jtisdale

Offline

Join Date: Oct 2001

Location: Southwestern WI

Posts: 1,037

View Reader's Rigs Gallery



Thanks Bob!



Aron 338' 1st <<<<<<<<<<<<< Oo. :-laf

Me 318'<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<< Oo. :-laf

powerstroke 287 or 288

powerstroke 286 or 287 (or so)

(forgive me on the last two, I didnt hear the exact footages)

Craig, the pull was at Lancaster. Only four trucks showed for the heavy class. Chris Hall called, but I wasnt home, and by the time I got him on the phone, it was a little too late for him to come up. I'll do battle with him next weekend at Mineral Point.