Many Towing Questions

[David Pendleton]

I have a 2001 Quad Cab/4x4//Short Box/Auto/3. 54 truck.



I also have a 23' boat that I tow, weighing in at around 8000lbs on the trailer.



I've never tow in overdrive but frankly, the ridiculously high RPMs of towing at 60MPH are starting to wear on me. I've always felt this truck was a little weak in front of this trailer (compared to my previous V10).



I just completed a 250mile tow in 80-85 degree heat with this rig and the temp reached 240 twice. This is with relatively fresh anti-freeze (and ac off), too. A brief wait by the side of the road fixed everyting (I hope. ).



I have this truck serviced based on the 'heavy duty' schedule in the manual, by my dealer and have so far been completely satisfied. I take extraordinarily good care of it, both mechanically and cosmetically, but I'm tired of crappy performance.



I'm starting to look at the other makers. What gives with my Dodge? I need more towing power, but I'm not interested in BOMB'ing the hell out of this thing.



Any ideas?



Thanks all.



David

 

[Blakers]

You'd probably get more exposure if you posted your question in the 24v forum.



I am not real familiar with the 2g 24 valvers as I went from a 95 12 valve to a new 03. I would say you definately need some help with power. It should be relatively easy for you to get your power up to where you can pull that trailer with ease in overdrive and do it much better than your V-10 ever did.



My 12 valve would have easily pulled your sized trailer up and down the West Virginia mountains in overdrive at 70 mph. I did it with my travel trailer. My water temperature hardly rose at all. My limitation was exhaust gas temperature, which only occassionally would make me back off the throttle or take it out of overdrive.



Your limitations will be your torque converter clutch. You can keep your power within its limits or go with a better aftermarket triple disc converter.



You said, "I'm not interested in BOMB'ing the hell out of this thing. " Don't look negatively at bombing your truck. All that means is modifying it to do what you want it to do for you.



Blake

 

[Steve Campbell]

"....and the temp reached 240 twice."

Sounds to me like your radiator is full of bugs or your thermostat is only opening part way. It could also be the fan clutch... but that is the expensive part and you should eliminate the other two possibilities first.

 

[Sticks]

Originally posted by David Pendleton

I have a 2001 Quad Cab/4x4//Short Box/Auto/3. 54 truck.



I'm starting to look at the other makers. What gives with my Dodge? I need more towing power, but I'm not interested in BOMB'ing the hell out of this thing.



Any ideas?



Thanks all.



David

First off it is a stock auto. I made the same mistake and now I have an 02 3500 6 speed. The autos are great grocery getters, and tow wonderfully on the flats, but put a hill in front of them and it turns to crap. The CTD was tuned down so's not to tear up the wimpy 47RE transmission.



Don't worry about the RPM's. 2200 is the sweet spot for the motor and runs cooler (EGT wise) than anything lower.



You can step the engine up a little by just putting some mild injectors in (275's) and/or a timing box (Edge EZ, BD) or at least a boost fouler. If you want to avoid hassles with the dealer, keep them small and simple.



Normally EGT temps is the big concern, not water. I would say definitely get that figured out first, then spend the $300 on injectors or timing box (check the TDR classifieds) and try that. If the truck still does not perform to how you want, go back to stock, re-sell the aftermarket parts, and get a different truck. I would recommend staying away from the Ford 6. 0. You think you have problems now...

 

[fox]

I would supect your crankcase breather bottle is putting fumes of oil mist into the radiator to be the cause of your your over heat problem. Move the hose as a minimum.



Find a set of 275 injectors in the clasified adds and get them put in. Your power and mileage will improve.



Two weeks ago I pulled an enclosed trailer from south Florida to Illinois and even in the hills around Chatanoga I was able to stay in OD. Up hill with a trailer, 60 mph and loving it!!!

In my truck , 60 in OD is the weekest point.

I do have gauges--EGT , Fuel Pressure, Boost, Trans Temp and Trans Pressure.

Most of the trip I ran about 70-72. Wife went 75.

Tripp ended with the one way mpg at 14. 2

BTW the temps were in the 90's.

 

[tschwab]

Good advice thus far, but the 1st and most significant upgrade he needs to do is to put in gauges and upgrade the Valve body & Torque converter. Then add the other stuff as needed. You won't believe the difference a TC will make. Also, the 24V with 3. 55 likes to rev compared to the 12V. The preferred rear axle with the 24V is 4. 10, you could consider putting in a 4. 10 which would leave your truck stock, but improve performance.

 

[y-knot]

For what it's worth I tow 100% of the time in od, I can't imagine not towing that way, not only would I be very slow (I'd probaly fall asleep), but my rpm's would bo sky high. Also I have never had a cooling problem, I v'e been in the keys on 100 + days and in new mexico , we always run the ac. My temps pratty much stay at 160 or so, my rear end temps 140-160, transmission temps 140-160 on the road- might go to 180 in city traffic. I think I would investigate your cooling problem before you go any further, something doesn't sound right. The tc would be a good improvement, but you probally don't have to have it, try towing in OD? The CTD is a very good trailer towing engine, It's what sold me, not the fact that it was a dodge. I have always felt confident in it's abilities to get me there and back.

 

[plongson]

Well David, with 28 posts, you have been around here long enough to know what these trucks will do at every level of BOMBING. From mild to WILD. You also know what risks are involved at every level. Bottom line is, aside from the overheating issue, YOU have to decide what you want the truck to do. If it is performing as designed and you don't want to BOMB... "You got what you Bought"...

 

[jandtjil]

David

FWIW

With my limited towing experience, I feel that those who have made mods to their auto trans, have made the right choice.

The power is there even stock, the trans just isnt getting it to the wheels.

For me 3. 54 and 4. 10 are both too extreme, I would like to try the 3. 73 ratio like the 03s.



JJ

 

[jponder]

I agree that your prob is that you chose an auto. If you really want some good towing performance you'll neet to upgrade that transmission or get a 6 speed.

 

[David Pendleton]

Thanks for the many responses. I knew I could count on you guys.



A couple more things... the towing in overdrive topic comes up quite frequently here on TDR and while I have not seen one for a while, I seem to remember there being some debate about proper operation of the transmission cooler while in overdrive under load. I'm sure you guys wouldn't be doing this if this was the case, but is there any information behind this claim?



Also, I also remember something from a past issue about what to do to a stock auto, as far as modifications, and in what order. Does anyone else remember this, and when/where?



I'm thinking in my case:



1. Gauges; pyro and trans-temp at a minimum.

2. Torque Converter (Which one?)

3. Injectors. Are the 275 injectors the Bosch 'RV' injectors?



Thanks again.



David

 

[bmoeller]

Originally posted by David Pendleton

I'm thinking in my case:



1. Gauges; pyro and trans-temp at a minimum.

2. Torque Converter (Which one?)

3. Injectors. Are the 275 injectors the Bosch 'RV' injectors?

1. don't forget also the fuel press. to keep an eye on the lift pump.



2. Up to you. ATS and Goerend both have triple lockup clutches, maybe some other too. There are also BD, Suncoast, DTT,... ... ..... Do some searches. There is more reading than you'll know what to do with on those.



3. Yes.

 

[Joe G.]

Before doing anything else you should find out what is causeing it to heat up. Mine won't show anything over 190 when I'm towing in 100 degree heat regardless of hills or traffic.

 

[lawdog]

David,

I ran a 2000 QC SB 3. 54 Auto before buying my corrent ride. I had 275 HP injectors, a Boost fooler and pushed 30-32 lbs max boost and a 4" exhaust. I pulled 7000 lbs ALL the time in OD From Detroit to West YEllowstone and back. Yess it would kick out in places in the Mountains, but in Michigan RARELY EVER kicks out of OD towing.

 

[Blakers]

David, it looks like you're right down the road from St Lucas, Iowa where Goerend Brother Transmissions is located. I was very happy with their triple disc converter and transmission they made up for my 95.



I think your 3. 54 gears should be fine for your loads. Guys are pulling much more than that fine.



Good luck.

 

[IWeiny]

There is something wrong with 240 deg.

I towed in OD all the time with a 7000# trailer and had no problems in the Sierras. I only started boming when I added a 3000# camper.



If your temps are really 240 get the dealer to find out what is wrong with your truck. Mine was no speed deamon on the hills but I never had an over heating problem.





PS I had no guages then either.

 

[Loren]

David,



You appear to have two separate problems.



I think the suggestions on upgrading your automatic transmission, especially the torque converter, are excellent. My 1995 truck was an auto and I upgraded by buying a 2000 six-speed. The aftermarket suppliers for transmission upgrades weren't around (or I hadn't heard of them) in 1996 when I knew that the auto wasn't going to pull the big Avion without complaining.



If you don't want to buy a new truck with a manual transmission, you will need to upgrade your transmission in order to tow extensively.



The other problem is the overheating. I would also check for a clogged radiator and bad thermostat, as well as the fan clutch. These engines do not overheat while towing unless something is wrong. If your truck is still under warranty, I would suggest you ask the dealer to fix it.



The trailer I pull most often these days is the Holiday Rambler, which is about as heavy as your boat. The only time the fan clutch engages is in the mountains. You should not be having cooling problems.



Loren

 

[RustyJC]

We tow a 13,500 lb, 36' 5th wheel RV that is 13'2" tall. We're running a GCW of 21,180 lbs (21,500 lbs GCWR). Our truck has a 190 degF thermostat, and it consistently runs engine coolant temperatures of 185-190 degF empty and 190-195 degF towing, even in the Texas Hill Country during 90-100 degF ambient temperatures. If you're seeing 240 degF coolant temperatures, something is definitely malfunctioning.



Rusty

 

[78repowerwagon]

With an auto you want to avoid horsepower down low. The trans needs rpms to live. Spend the money on bigger injectors and avoid timing boxes. The timing boxes make power come on early and can be hard on the transmission. I tow with a 3. 54 geared auto in overdrive usually grossing around 18,000. I am putting 345hp on the ground while towing (495 when playing) and have 185,000 on my truck with Dodges "weak" auto. I upgraded it to handle my power at 135,000 with a single disk Suncoast converter and valve body.



I have had cooling problems which led back to the poorly placed draft tube. I pulled my rad and pressure washed it and installed a 180 thermostat at the same time. It will not go over 190 now no matter how long/steep the hill. Also I extended the tube under the truck.

 

[David Pendleton]

David Pendleton

Thanks again for everyone's input.



I decided to buy a new truck. I picked up my 03 2500 ETC/DG8 today.



Haven't hooked it up yet.



David