Well, I think the odds are slim that someone is going to take your truck or cookstove away from you and go on a killing spree with it. The other day I noticed a co-worker carrying a "flick" knife in his back pocket. (That's a pocketknife that can be opened with one hand). When I asked him why he said he learned in his firearm safety class that if someone tries to take his pistol away from him he can pull his knife and cut/stab the attacker. So my reply was so if you're not carrying a gun then you don't need to carry the knife? His reply was "yea -- that's it". For every justifible handgun homicide killing there are 8 accidental killings involving guns.
-
TDR Magazine subscribers receive more than the magazine! You also gain additional forum privileges!
Details here: TDR Privileges
Subscribe to TDR Magazine here: https://www.tdr-online.com/
Massacres happen when no one is there to return fire.
- Thread starter Sled Puller
- Start Date
Attention: TDR Forum Junkies To the point: Click this link and check out the Front Page News story(ies) where we are tracking the introduction of the 2025 Ram HD trucks.
Thanks, TDR Staff
AMink
TDR MEMBER
My point was not that someone would kill with a stolen stove. My point was regarding "wants" and "needs" and that in America, we are lucky enough to not have to justify ourselves when we desire something that someone else may not deem necessary. My father has two vintage MG automobiles. Does he NEED them? No. Do thay make any sense in todays world? Not really. Does he WANT them and enjoy them? Absolutely. I enjoy guns. I have guns from . 22 on up to . 338 and 8mm. . 44's and . 38's. AK's and GP's. Most of them have been locked up in my safe for years without being fired. I pull them out occasionally, wipe them down, and put them back. Because I want to, not need to.
Another point I'd like to make is that NONE of the accidental deaths in this country (or world) were caused by a gun. The accidental deaths were caused by mishandling, improper storage, or misuse of firearms by PEOPLE. The same holds true for knives, cars, baseball bats, tire irons, etc. Inanimate objects, in and of themselves, hold no danger. It is the user, or misuser, who causes the problem.
Thank you for indulging in my rambling anger. :-laf
There is no right to form a militia. We already are the militia. That first part of the statement is simply a declarative. 'Well regulated' generally means to be operating smoothly and near peak efficiency, except to the US government, where it means to stifle and impede operations to the point of total dysfunctionality.
As to the meat of the 2nd amendment, I will reiterate. The right to keep and bear arms predates the first social compact. The right to defend one's self and one's property predates the first social compact. These, and other rights, are our individual rights. And to be fair, we have yielded many rights starting with that first social compact. We have yielded the right to kill on sight anyone we just remotely think might be attacking us or stealing our property. We have yielded the right to comport ourselves as we wish, which gave rise to the term 'acting civilized'. We have yielded many rights over the eons in order that we may build a stronger, safer and more comfortable society, one in which we can have the freedom to explore and discover new things. We have yielded the right to use our arms when and as we see fit. But we have never yielded the right keep and bear arms. Nor have we ever yielded the right to defend ourselves, our property and our fellows against those who would violate our social compact for whatever reason, be it sheer cussedness or neural malfunction.
Unfortunately, the vast majority of Democrat and Republican politicians, most of whom are closet fascists, truly believe that the US needs only one single omniscient and omnipotent centralized government. They do not believe that we need individual rights; rather, they believe that the omniscient, omnipotent central government knows what is best for each and every one of us, knows what is the best use of our personal and private property, has the right to dictate to us all terms by which we may live, and has the right to terminate our lives as they see fit should we voice disagreement. One obvious failure on their part is that they seem to be incapable of reading a dictionary, where they might have learned that 'right' and 'power' are two different concepts and have two different meanings; they have forgotten that the US government has only those powers that we the people gave it, that neither that government nor any of its agents have any rights whatever.
Unfortunately, we the people are too spineless to stand up to them. Thus we allow these politicians with delusions of godhood to negate our God-given rights. We allow them to erase our freedoms. And our liberties. We allow them to apply the law to all but themselves. In short, we have the government we deserve. And if the government is responsible for the absence of defensive arms, then we, the people, are ultimately responsible for these tragedies that befall our fellows.
I agree fully and am sick and tired of the media portraying it the other way around. Banning weapons completely or making them illegal or changing any law is only going to affect those that obey the laws. It has no impact what-so-ever on the person that has decided that they want to go on a killing spree. They will do what ever is necessary to get the weapons they need.
I also think that the death toll would have been much less if properly trained citizens (whether they be students, teachers, janitors, whoever) were allowed to be armed on campus.
On the same note, I don't think the current requirements for getting a Concealed Carry Permit are strict enough in any state. My personal opinion.
I was previously in the military and have been a gun lover all my life. I carry a handgun whenever possible. I hope I never need to use it, but I am willing to if need be.
Matter of fact, my new present to myself just showed up today. The lightest and smallest 32 auto ever made. It's a Kel-tec P32, for when my H&K Tactical 45 or my Ruger P97 (45) get left at home.
It's better to be judged by 12, than carried by 6.
I am on a West Virginia campus that doesn't permit firearms on campus, however I have disregarded this since the Virginia Tech shooting. I have been carrying a 44 magnum for personal defense. I am a responsible citizen and feel I have a right to carry no matter where the location may be to protect myself. Campus security is obviously ill equipped to do anything about a shooter on the property, and as stated earlier in this thread an armed student could have stopped the carnage at 1 or 2 not 33. I am wondering how this is setting with the gun control lobbyists that pushed and pushed to take guns out of the hands of people who could use them constructively.
Turbo Tim 1
TDR MEMBER
I've got about 6 of those types of knives, they are not illegal to own so what is the problem. I also own a number of handguns and rifles and shotguns, I've taken hunter safety courses, New York state required safety courses for pistol ownership and was in the military also.
I can tell you that none of my guns have every hurt me or another human but my knives on the other hand have done a number on my knuckles over the years, maybe the anti-gunners should forget about my guns and take away my knives:-laf
Do I think we need gun control, absolutely, NY requires a pretty thorough background check involving the FBI and references, I think that should be required nationwide, but the biggest thing is, anyone caught with a hand gun with out the required permits should be locked away for a very long time.
This kid shouldn't have been allowed a gun, any pshycological treatment should be a reason for disqualification, also I think a person should have to be a full citizen. What about the parents, why did this kid have these problems? I say deport them all, if it's so bad here you have to kill people then just go home!
Things could get interesting if someone who doesn't know you who is also carrying, sees your weapon and decides you're a threat. I don't imagine your weapon is easy to conceal.
Depends on the frame size of the 44mag -I've seen some I could carry in my pocket as easily as a Leatherman. If it is still coat/jacket weather, you're well covered.
I have noticed a superiority complex among some military personnel. I have an uncle who was a SEAL for 20+ years, and thinks the same as MLisle- people in general arent responsible enough to own or carry firearms. Sounds like a politician to me. I have nothing against the military, and appreciate their defense of me and my fellow CITIZENS, especially in this time of religous war (though I think commanders need much more freedom, with vicotry being the #1 objective), but I grow weary of the attitude that since I have never served, I somehow lack the discipline to carry the means to defend myself. That is total dog squeezings. I guess when they were handing out self confidence and arrogance, I was in line for brains and reasoning, beause I have never had that high an opinion of myself.
Now, that said, I agree, many people arent emotionally mature enough to handle the responsibilty to own or carry a firearm safely. Our welfare society has seen to that. No one is responsible for themselves anymore- it's ALWAYS someone else's fault. If youhave a child at 15 or go kill someone, well, someone oppressed you and held you back, or some other Bull Stuffing. I admit I almost got caught in this trap a few years ago, but I pulled myself out of it. I blamed everyone else for my trouble in Stoddar County (see "Why I hate the south" from Mar04). Things happen, and one moves on. I fear for my own freedom and autonomy if someone breaks into my home here in Cape Girardeau. I am almost certain I'd go to jail for manslaughter, though I dont currently own a firearm. But, a kitchen chair, prybar, hammer, hoof rasp, ANYTHING can be a deadly weapon in the right hands. People have been killing each other for thousands, if not millions, of years, and will continue to do so. Why I should be disallowed from having it happen to me is beyond my feeble comprehension, and a sign of our society's lack of attention paid to those around us.
As for the dollar letting the deranged "student" stay in school, I think it is political corectness taking more victims more so than the almighty dollar. You all know, only WHITE MEN commit any crimes of hate or violence; the rest of them are just retalliating against Ol Whitey and his oppression.
I have noticed a superiority complex among some military personnel. I have an uncle who was a SEAL for 20+ years, and thinks the same as MLisle- people in general arent responsible enough to own or carry firearms. Sounds like a politician to me. I have nothing against the military, and appreciate their defense of me and my fellow CITIZENS, especially in this time of religous war (though I think commanders need much more freedom, with vicotry being the #1 objective), but I grow weary of the attitude that since I have never served, I somehow lack the discipline to carry the means to defend myself. That is total dog squeezings. I guess when they were handing out self confidence and arrogance, I was in line for brains and reasoning, beause I have never had that high an opinion of myself.
Now, that said, I agree, many people arent emotionally mature enough to handle the responsibilty to own or carry a firearm safely. Our welfare society has seen to that. No one is responsible for themselves anymore- it's ALWAYS someone else's fault. If youhave a child at 15 or go kill someone, well, someone oppressed you and held you back, or some other Bull Stuffing. I admit I almost got caught in this trap a few years ago, but I pulled myself out of it. I blamed everyone else for my trouble in Stoddar County (see "Why I hate the south" from Mar04). Things happen, and one moves on. I fear for my own freedom and autonomy if someone breaks into my home here in Cape Girardeau. I am almost certain I'd go to jail for manslaughter, though I dont currently own a firearm. But, a kitchen chair, prybar, hammer, hoof rasp, ANYTHING can be a deadly weapon in the right hands. People have been killing each other for thousands, if not millions, of years, and will continue to do so. Why I should be disallowed from having it happen to me is beyond my feeble comprehension, and a sign of our society's lack of attention paid to those around us.
As for the dollar letting the deranged "student" stay in school, I think it is political corectness taking more victims more so than the almighty dollar. You all know, only WHITE MEN commit any crimes of hate or violence; the rest of them are just retalliating against Ol Whitey and his oppression.
No superiority complex here, after all tim mcveigh, lee harvey oswald, and other infamous killers were prior service. And there have been alot of police who have killed people without cause. I don't think that just because you have a honorable discharge you're qualified to carry and use a weapon correctly, just like I don't feel people in general are quaified to carry and use a weapon.
The quote would likely be similar to those released after the shooting at the Appalachian Law School in 2002.
See some samples here: http://johnrlott. tripod.com/apla.html
Notice in one of the articles it says the perp was tackled by a couple guys, naming one of them. . There is no mention that he and one other guy went to their trucks got THEIR GUNS and when confronted by ARMED CITIZENS he laid down his weapon.
And here http://timlambert.org/guns/appalachian/nd/tackle/
there must be 50 or more stories about this incident, with about 1 in 5 (I dind't count every one) mentioning that the guys who took down the perp actually had guns of their own, the rest say only the perp was tackled.
The media does not want to tell us when someone uses a gun to save a life, only when they can show how bad they are do we see it on the news...
Last edited by a moderator:
actually it is a ruger super blackhawk with a 7. 5 inch barrel that i seem to be the most proficient with of all my hand guns. I keep it in a backpack in a pocket only used for that purpose, most people wouldn't even know it to be there, The best guns are the silent ones, however when they need to talk they should be there to speak loud.
Turbo Tim 1
TDR MEMBER
This is from Ted Nugent on www.cnn.com
WACO, Texas (CNN) -- Zero tolerance, huh? Gun-free zones, huh? Try this on for size: Columbine gun-free zone, New York City pizza shop gun-free zone, Luby's Cafeteria gun-free zone, Amish school in Pennsylvania gun-free zone and now Virginia Tech gun-free zone.
Anybody see what the evil Brady Campaign and other anti-gun cults have created? I personally have zero tolerance for evil and denial. And America had best wake up real fast that the brain-dead celebration of unarmed helplessness will get you killed every time, and I've about had enough of it.
Nearly a decade ago, a Springfield, Oregon, high schooler, a hunter familiar with firearms, was able to bring an unfolding rampage to an abrupt end when he identified a gunman attempting to reload his . 22-caliber rifle, made the tactical decision to make a move and tackled the shooter.
A few years back, an assistant principal at Pearl High School in Mississippi, which was a gun-free zone, retrieved his legally owned Colt . 45 from his car and stopped a Columbine wannabe from continuing his massacre at another school after he had killed two and wounded more at Pearl.
At an eighth-grade school dance in Pennsylvania, a boy fatally shot a teacher and wounded two students before the owner of the dance hall brought the killing to a halt with his own gun.
More recently, just a few miles up the road from Virginia Tech, two law school students ran to fetch their legally owned firearm to stop a madman from slaughtering anybody and everybody he pleased. These brave, average, armed citizens neutralized him pronto.
My hero, Dr. Suzanne Gratia Hupp, was not allowed by Texas law to carry her handgun into Luby's Cafeteria that fateful day in 1991, when due to bureaucrat-forced unarmed helplessness she could do nothing to stop satanic George Hennard from killing 23 people and wounding more than 20 others before he shot himself. Hupp was unarmed for no other reason than denial-ridden "feel good" politics.
She has since led the charge for concealed weapon upgrade in Texas, where we can now stop evil. Yet, there are still the mindless puppets of the Brady Campaign and other anti-gun organizations insisting on continuing the gun-free zone insanity by which innocents are forced into unarmed helplessness. Shame on them. Shame on America. Shame on the anti-gunners all.
No one was foolish enough to debate Ryder truck regulations or ammonia nitrate restrictions or a "cult of agriculture fertilizer" following the unabashed evil of Timothy McVeigh's heinous crime against America on that fateful day in Oklahoma City. No one faulted kitchen utensils or other hardware of choice after Jeffrey Dahmer was caught drugging, mutilating, raping, murdering and cannibalizing his victims. Nobody wanted "steak knife control" as they autopsied the dead nurses in Chicago, Illinois, as Richard Speck went on trial for mass murder.
Evil is as evil does, and laws disarming guaranteed victims make evil people very, very happy. Shame on us.
Already spineless gun control advocates are squawking like chickens with their tiny-brained heads chopped off, making political hay over this most recent, devastating Virginia Tech massacre, when in fact it is their own forced gun-free zone policy that enabled the unchallenged methodical murder of 32 people.
Thirty-two people dead on a U. S. college campus pursuing their American Dream, mowed-down over an extended period of time by a lone, non-American gunman in possession of a firearm on campus in defiance of a zero-tolerance gun ban. Feel better yet? Didn't think so.
Who doesn't get this? Who has the audacity to demand unarmed helplessness? Who likes dead good guys?
I'll tell you who. People who tramp on the Second Amendment, that's who. People who refuse to accept the self-evident truth that free people have the God-given right to keep and bear arms, to defend themselves and their loved ones. People who are so desperate in their drive to control others, so mindless in their denial that they pretend access to gas causes arson, Ryder trucks and fertilizer cause terrorism, water causes drowning, forks and spoons cause obesity, dialing 911 will somehow save your life, and that their greedy clamoring to "feel good" is more important than admitting that armed citizens are much better equipped to stop evil than unarmed, helpless ones.
Pray for the families of victims everywhere, America. Study the methodology of evil. It has a profile, a system, a preferred environment where victims cannot fight back. Embrace the facts, demand upgrade and be certain that your children's school has a better plan than Virginia Tech or Columbine. Eliminate the insanity of gun-free zones, which will never, ever be gun-free zones. They will only be good guy gun-free zones, and that is a recipe for disaster written in blood on the altar of denial. I, for one, refuse to genuflect there.
WACO, Texas (CNN) -- Zero tolerance, huh? Gun-free zones, huh? Try this on for size: Columbine gun-free zone, New York City pizza shop gun-free zone, Luby's Cafeteria gun-free zone, Amish school in Pennsylvania gun-free zone and now Virginia Tech gun-free zone.
Anybody see what the evil Brady Campaign and other anti-gun cults have created? I personally have zero tolerance for evil and denial. And America had best wake up real fast that the brain-dead celebration of unarmed helplessness will get you killed every time, and I've about had enough of it.
Nearly a decade ago, a Springfield, Oregon, high schooler, a hunter familiar with firearms, was able to bring an unfolding rampage to an abrupt end when he identified a gunman attempting to reload his . 22-caliber rifle, made the tactical decision to make a move and tackled the shooter.
A few years back, an assistant principal at Pearl High School in Mississippi, which was a gun-free zone, retrieved his legally owned Colt . 45 from his car and stopped a Columbine wannabe from continuing his massacre at another school after he had killed two and wounded more at Pearl.
At an eighth-grade school dance in Pennsylvania, a boy fatally shot a teacher and wounded two students before the owner of the dance hall brought the killing to a halt with his own gun.
More recently, just a few miles up the road from Virginia Tech, two law school students ran to fetch their legally owned firearm to stop a madman from slaughtering anybody and everybody he pleased. These brave, average, armed citizens neutralized him pronto.
My hero, Dr. Suzanne Gratia Hupp, was not allowed by Texas law to carry her handgun into Luby's Cafeteria that fateful day in 1991, when due to bureaucrat-forced unarmed helplessness she could do nothing to stop satanic George Hennard from killing 23 people and wounding more than 20 others before he shot himself. Hupp was unarmed for no other reason than denial-ridden "feel good" politics.
She has since led the charge for concealed weapon upgrade in Texas, where we can now stop evil. Yet, there are still the mindless puppets of the Brady Campaign and other anti-gun organizations insisting on continuing the gun-free zone insanity by which innocents are forced into unarmed helplessness. Shame on them. Shame on America. Shame on the anti-gunners all.
No one was foolish enough to debate Ryder truck regulations or ammonia nitrate restrictions or a "cult of agriculture fertilizer" following the unabashed evil of Timothy McVeigh's heinous crime against America on that fateful day in Oklahoma City. No one faulted kitchen utensils or other hardware of choice after Jeffrey Dahmer was caught drugging, mutilating, raping, murdering and cannibalizing his victims. Nobody wanted "steak knife control" as they autopsied the dead nurses in Chicago, Illinois, as Richard Speck went on trial for mass murder.
Evil is as evil does, and laws disarming guaranteed victims make evil people very, very happy. Shame on us.
Already spineless gun control advocates are squawking like chickens with their tiny-brained heads chopped off, making political hay over this most recent, devastating Virginia Tech massacre, when in fact it is their own forced gun-free zone policy that enabled the unchallenged methodical murder of 32 people.
Thirty-two people dead on a U. S. college campus pursuing their American Dream, mowed-down over an extended period of time by a lone, non-American gunman in possession of a firearm on campus in defiance of a zero-tolerance gun ban. Feel better yet? Didn't think so.
Who doesn't get this? Who has the audacity to demand unarmed helplessness? Who likes dead good guys?
I'll tell you who. People who tramp on the Second Amendment, that's who. People who refuse to accept the self-evident truth that free people have the God-given right to keep and bear arms, to defend themselves and their loved ones. People who are so desperate in their drive to control others, so mindless in their denial that they pretend access to gas causes arson, Ryder trucks and fertilizer cause terrorism, water causes drowning, forks and spoons cause obesity, dialing 911 will somehow save your life, and that their greedy clamoring to "feel good" is more important than admitting that armed citizens are much better equipped to stop evil than unarmed, helpless ones.
Pray for the families of victims everywhere, America. Study the methodology of evil. It has a profile, a system, a preferred environment where victims cannot fight back. Embrace the facts, demand upgrade and be certain that your children's school has a better plan than Virginia Tech or Columbine. Eliminate the insanity of gun-free zones, which will never, ever be gun-free zones. They will only be good guy gun-free zones, and that is a recipe for disaster written in blood on the altar of denial. I, for one, refuse to genuflect there.
Last edited by a moderator:
(Quotee's name redacted due to irrelevance. )
If the observer doesn't know you're packin', he clearly hasn't seen your arm. But if he's seen your arm, he know's you're packin'. The logic of the quoted statement escapes me.
Besides, if the observer is packin' heat whilst goin' about his lawful business, he will also be well aware that ordinary, lawful actions and behavior are not portents of bad or evil that would require lethal response.
I agree 100%! I just said tonight to my wife since the news media is still carrying on. Do you think this lagitimate point would ever be brought up in the news media
. I don't think so. And do you think if guns where outlawed this fruit cake would have not had a weapon. I don't think so .
HEMI®Dart
TDR MEMBER
Similar threads
Issue 128 – Digital Version
Digital Magazines
FREE!
TDR Test Drive - Digital Edition
Renew
Subscribe
Gift Subscriptions
Back Issues
Subscription Status
Address Change Form
Buyer's Guides
Ram Diagnostic Trouble Codes
The Perfect Collection
The Perfect Collection Vol. II
TSB Updates
Dodge/Cummins Historical Overview
Cameron Collection
What Makes Us Tick?
Product Showcase
Advertising
Turbo Diesel Register
Issue 128 – Digital Version
Digital Magazines
FREE!
TDR Test Drive - Digital Edition
Renew
Subscribe
Gift Subscriptions
Back Issues
Subscription Status
Address Change Form
Buyer's Guides
Ram Diagnostic Trouble Codes
The Perfect Collection
The Perfect Collection Vol. II
TSB Updates
Dodge/Cummins Historical Overview
Cameron Collection
What Makes Us Tick?
Product Showcase
Advertising
