Massacres happen when no one is there to return fire.

[AMink]

Returning fire = 2 wrongs don't make a right.

Since returning fire to protect yourself and others isn't wrong, I don't see where this quote would apply. I wonder what would have happened if he didn't kill himself when he did. Would the death toll be 40? 50? Should bad guys shoot until they run out of ammo? Should the people just wait to be killed? Any action that could slow or stop a deranged killer should be a viable option. Yes, you could get killed trying to do something, but you could get killed doing nothing, also. I hope I'd at least try something, including shooting back.



On a related point, the paper today has an article stating that Virgina's "lax" gun laws are to blame for lots of illegal guns in NYC, DC, LA, Philly, etc. Apparently, a lot of guns used in crimes in those cities have origins in VA. Of course, they don't break down HOW the guns got where they are. Were they stolen? Purchased? Got up and walked there by themselves? Many times, the information that is NOT given can skew the news as much as the info that is given. And since guns aren't allowed in DC, and permits required in many of the other cities mentioned, it would appear that VA's laws are not the issue. It's just that the criminals in these cities either aren't aware of the laws or just choose not to follow them. I'm putting my money on the latter. Criminals are what they are because they **gasp** commit crimes that are against the law!



Oh, and BTW, 2 wrongs don't make a right, but three rights make a left!:-laf

 

[Sled Puller]

Returning fire = 2 wrongs don't make a right.

So,if I understand you correctly Hemi, The bad guy killing people is wrong, so to avoid being wrong myself, I shouldn't return fire. In other words, die happy, because I chose the high road??



I think your statemant applies to other things, like if you sleep with my wife, I shouldn't sleep with yours to get even.



However, I'll take the risk on eternal damnation and blow the perp away, if I am in the situation(and hopefully act properly. )

 

[crobertson1]

He HAD to have been joking.

 

[MFalkinham]

Returning fire = 2 wrongs don't make a right.

Sounds like an answer from a Democrat... ...


Question: How do you tell the difference between Democrats, Republicans And Southern Republicans?


The answer can be found by posing the following question:


You're walking down a deserted street with your wife and two small children.


Suddenly, an Islamic Terrorist with a huge knife comes around the corner, locks eyes with you, screams obscenities, praises Allah, raises the knife, and charges at you.


You are carrying a Glock cal . 40, and you are an expert shot. You have mere seconds before he reaches you and your family.

What do you do?




Democrat's Answer:


Well, that's not enough information to answer the question!


Does the man look poor or oppressed?


Have I ever done anything to him that would inspire him to attack?


Could we run away?


What does my wife think?


What about the kids?


Could I possibly swing the gun like a club and knock the knife out of his hand?


What does the law say about this situation?


Does the Glock have appropriate safety built into it?


Why am I carrying a loaded gun anyway, and what kind of message does this send to society and to my children?


Is it possible he'd be happy with just killing me?


Does he definitely want to kill me, or would he be content just to wound me?


If I were to grab his knees and hold on, could my family get away while he was stabbing me?


Should I call 9-1-1?


Why is this street so deserted?


We need to raise taxes, have a paint and weed day and make this happier, healthier street that would discourage such behavior.


This is all so confusing! I need to debate this with some friends for few days and try to come to a consensus.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~




Republican's Answer:


BANG!
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~





Southern Republican's Answer:


BANG! BANG! BANG! BANG! BANG! BANG! BANG! BANG! BANG! click..... (sounds of reloading).


BANG! BANG! BANG! BANG! BANG! BANG! BANG! BANG! BANG! click

 

[RDusch]

Pretty good except for one thing, a true democrat would never carry a glock (handgun) it might scare the children.

Maybe replace that with peper spray or maybe a weenie whisle.

Rick

 

[2broke2smoke]

Returning fire = 2 wrongs don't make a right.

is this a serious statement?

 

[fest3er]

... And do you think if guns where outlawed this fruit cake would have not had a weapon. I don't think so .

You are right. Guns *are* outlawed on campuses in VA. Which means that only criminals and the mentally disturbed will have and use them to cause death and mayhem.



Whatever term one might use to refer to the shooter - fruitcake, loony-tunes, a few bricks shy of a full hod, mentally disturbed, insane, et al - from the reports I've read he was disturbed, and had been for nigh on ten years. He was, in essence, a jar of 100F nitroglycerin - an explosive with positive delta-h, meaning it doesn't need external stimulation to explode, but is much more likely to explode if it is externally stimulated.

 

[fest3er]

Returning fire = 2 wrongs don't make a right.

I can't let this one go by.

Murder is wrong. Reprehensible even. In our social compact, we agree that we will refrain from unjustified homicide. Killing to prevent the loss of innocent life, be it your life or others' lives, is nearly always justifiable, because, also in our social compact, we agree that we will work together for the common good. And idly standing by while someone goes on a shooting spree is most definitely not working for the common good; it is a violation of the social compact.

As wrong as murder is, suicide is just as wrong. If someone is shooting at you and you have the means to defend yourself and others and you don't employ those means, you are willingly committing suicide and you are abetting the criminal who is doing the killing.

So you are incorrect, because returning fire is not wrong.

 

[Bill Lins]

Hemi said "Two wrongs don't make a right".



Since when is self-defense a "wrong"?



That's just like the guy who told me that timber rattlesnakes are an "endangered species" and that I shouldn't kill them if they come in my yard. Guess what- if they're close enough that they could harm my family or animals, they'll be a lot worse than "endangered"!

 

[HEMI®Dart]

Returning fire = 2 wrongs don't make a right.

I was only kidding. :-laf



Did you guys see this video?



http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jQ2l3JLosF8

 

[2broke2smoke]

good, that's what i thought ...



restores my faith in humanity ...



tdr humanity

 

[Kissfan113]

for definition of Southern Democrat... . See Southern Republican.



I have no doubt in my mind that in the event of a loon with a gun threatening my life that I would certainly do my best to save myself and those around me, be it with a knife, a gun or whatever may present itself for my use. Guns are not the problem as much as the mass media may like us to believe, people are the problem, and everyone has an excuse these days, I say there are no excuses for the way some people behave, but I do think that America needs to reevaluate its reliance on authority figures to protect the people, 1 person with a gun is better than 10 on the phone with the cops that will take their time at getting to the problem.

 

[BGlidewell]

I wasn't critizing the ownership of a knife, it didn't make any sense to me that carrying a gun made it necessary to carry a knife, and if you didn't have the gun you wouldn't need the knife. I can understand carrying a knife if you don't have a gun.

It's all about options I guess. Knives don't make noise and pistols are loud box openers. :-laf

 

[BGlidewell]

Things could get interesting if someone who doesn't know you who is also carrying, sees your weapon and decides you're a threat. I don't imagine your weapon is easy to conceal.

I understand your concern. I wish everyone despite their position on gun rights would take a state CCW class.

In Texas, CCW classes cover this situation as do most other states that have reciprocity agreements with Texas. In a third-party situation, we're taught to first be good witnesses, and resort to deadly force only when we are certain of what is really going. In addition, concealed carry means just that, concealed. Any case of failure to conceal unless justifiable force is being used is a crime and is cause for loss of CCL.

 

[GOT-Torque]

The Second Amendment, America’s Original Homeland Security.

 

[RandyHamilton]

How dare they!!

I was only kidding. :-laf



Did you guys see this video?



http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jQ2l3JLosF8

Subject that poor child to such brutal treatment? Oh the HORROR of being forced to actually TOUCH all those horrible, horrible evil guns!



(Just imagining the typical lib's reaction to that video)

 

[fkovalski]

... (Just imagining the typical lib's reaction to that video)

Yea, they would say that the video is evidence of why more laws are needed to prevent this type of thing from happening!

 

[SethA]

Well i gotta put in my $. 02 on this one, a similar thing like this happened in trolley Square in Salt Lake City. That is somebody with obvious problems loaded up with guns and ammo went to take it all out on innocent bystanders, 5 (if i remeber correctly) were killed in Salt Lake and 32 in V Tech



The Difference was in Salt Lake there was a law abiding citizen carrying a concealed weapon. yes he was an off-duty police officer, but they are not required to carry off duty. The killer had several shotgun shells and another gun in his backpack he wasn't going to stop until somebody stopped him or he ran out of shells, luckily the man was there and took action and prevented the deaths of countless more.



I strongly believe that if somebody would have started shooting back they would have slowed the killer down at V tech.



There are several legal issues I agree and even if you are completely legal to carry and justified in shooting to defened your self you will most likely by arrested and have to jump through a bunch of legal hoops but to echo an ealier post

"its better to be judged by 12 than carried by 6"



I am a student at Utah State and completely legal to carry and i do and i would much rather go down with an empty clip then trying to hide in a corner; not to mention watching my wife, or others shot while i was hiding in the corner.

"Gun control = Hitting your Target"

 

[daveshoe]

Well, I think the odds are slim that someone is going to take your truck or cookstove away from you and go on a killing spree with it. The other day I noticed a co-worker carrying a "flick" knife in his back pocket. (That's a pocketknife that can be opened with one hand). When I asked him why he said he learned in his firearm safety class that if someone tries to take his pistol away from him he can pull his knife and cut/stab the attacker. So my reply was so if you're not carrying a gun then you don't need to carry the knife? His reply was "yea -- that's it". For every justifible handgun homicide killing there are 8 accidental killings involving guns.

''For every justifiable homicide there are 8 accidental killings involving guns''

I have to say I believe this statement to be a red herring. First of all,my CWP does not authorize me to shoot to kill--only to stop the threat. A robber held for police by a store owner may have easily saved a life--yet the 8 to one ratio still survives. Guns are used to prevent crime almost a million times a year according to the Lott study. I am not interested in killing anyone just to improve the ratio of justifiable homicides to accidental shootings;the lives saved by succesful non-lethal use of a firearm to prevent crime certainly is worth my decision to carry concealed.