Engine/Transmission (1998.5 - 2002) Master/slave bleeding.

[SRadke]

It doesn't need a bleed screw. The air will get out through the master cylinder but you have to take it out and hold the line on grade the air can get up to the master cylinder. With it in this position pump the slave cylinder a few times and it's bled. Simple as that.

 

[PatD]

Can you use a power bleeder from the bottom where the line goes into the slave cylinder like you would on a brake system? Does the master cylinder stop the feed if so would the pedal need tro be engaged or out?

question about one of the other methods, how much more of a grade does the system need? Its coming from the bottom of the truck to the top?

Thanks

Pat

 

[PatD]

Well, basically did what machinist said. I didn't have to drill a hole in the cap, there is one already there. I used my power bleed system to cover the hole and viola air bubbles galore! Pedal works fine and it was so much easier than pulling the system out again. Thanks to all

Pat

 

[radyvolk]

The master cylinder when installed is at a downward angle & the reservoir is connected at the low end so air is trapped in the higher end of the master cylinder. I removed the slave & master from there mounting & positioned the master with the reservoir end pointed up, than I pushed the slave cylinder rod in & out a couple of times. Reinstalled the master cylinder & pressed on the clutch pedal & I had about 1/4 to 1/2 inch travel & than could not push the pedal any further. When there was air in the master I could push the pedal down about half the pedal travel. I then reinstalled the slave cylinder.

Randy

 

[CFast]

it might not need a bleed screw, but wouldn't that make it a lot easier? Cheap, cheap, cheap. I expect this on a GM.

 

[SRadke]

The 24 valve's have a high spot in the line coming out of the master cylinder. It is routed up near the top of the firewall and back down to the slave. If it were bleedable up there mid line it would help. Since the air collects there a bleeder on the master or slave would be of little value.

 

[DMcLeod]

hey Gomez, I'm having the exact same trouble you had. Please respond with details on your outcome! Thx!

 

[Gomez]

DMcleod, after the clutch job I replaced the master/slave assembly with a new one. It must have been defective, I could not shift into any gear. Tried to bleed system till I was blue in the face. Installed another new assembly and this one just marginally worked. I had to press the clutch in till it bottomed out on floorboard (removed carpet from floor at contact area), for it to work. After several months of driving, it is working better. Still need to press clutch to floor to get into first and reverse. What ever happened to a simple adjustable mechanical linkage? Good luck on yours.

 

[GCroyle]

Guys,



I am suggesting that you consider checking your work on the hydraulics. There can be lots of reasons for shifting problems, but if you want to rule out the hydraulic system as the culprit, a simple test can confirm the status of the system.



With any master cylinder and slave or caliper combination air is the enemy. Trapped air compresses and we do not get the same amount of travel at the slave cylinder as designed and what the clutch needs to do its job, release the disc.



Suggestion:

Remove the slave cylinder from the housing leaving it hooked up to the line. Get a steering wheel puller or damper puller that has a flat bar, not a jaw type. Bolt it to the slave after you carefully remove the piston and boot assembly. Use the puller screw to block the slave piston, use care.



Now, with the system blocked, push on the pedal with your hand, do not do a pressure test at this time.



Air will show up as a spongy or soft pedal.



The master cylinder pushrod will only travel about 1/8" before lock up with the fluid, any longer than that and its time to look for air or worn pedal cluster components.



Bleeding.

This bleeding is not like the traditional pump pedal, hold, open bleed screw and waste fluid. I suggest that you use the slave cylinder as a pump to flush all of the fluid in the slave up and out into the master, this will push air bubbles out, let is expand back to normal length, repeat several times. Possibly have someone watch for bubbles to appear in reservoir.



Check your work by screwing the puller screw back in and test for shaft travel to pressure point.



You can also remove the entire system, take it to a bench, block the slave, use the pushrod and push on it. If it moves more than 1/8" time to bleed. Orient the entire system so you do not have any air traps, let the air go up and out the top. Set up a slave pushback arrangement, I use a 3/8" extension and push the slave down on to it, always with the air able to flow up. It helps to tap the slave and line with a tool to dislodge air bubbles and get them flowing up and out. With the slave blockes, test again, you can also short stroke the master pushrod to trigger the check valve in the master to burp out air.



I'm in the process of doing some hydraulic training videos right now, still feeling the unpleasant tingle of DOT 3 right now on my hands.



Bleed screws sometimes just waste DOT 3, you can pump it out using the already installed slave cylinder and there are other methods, like vacuum on top of the fluid reservoir, another good tool to keep in mind.



I would not like to see mechanical systems make a comeback, hydraulic clutch release systems have a lot going for them.



Good luck.

 

[DMcLeod]

Gomez-thanks for the reply. My experience has been nearly identical to yours. In searching other threads, it seems this is not so uncommon. I'm waiting for new hydraulics to arrive.

GCroyle-thanks for the info. I've done tons of searching on this topic and ran across several of your posts/comments. I hope to put a puller on the slave tomorrow, and see what's going on. I hope I can agree with you someday that "hydraulic clutch systems have a lot going for them. "

 

[GCroyle]

DMcLeod,



PM sent.



One thing that we do not have on a clutch pedal is the type of feedback that we get from a brake pedal. My wife could tell me if the brake pedal felt different, but a clutch hydraulic system feedback is not always offering very much diagnostic feedback. But when you block the slave and feel for lost motion in the system, now you get feedback. Fords have really had issues, the 97- had pedal clusters made from stampings, thin wall and thin support areas for the bushings, older trucks had flexible firewalls etc. Look under the dash and work the pedal while it is blocked and watch for slop, not expecting anything, but it only takes a minute to check and verify.



Maybe one day, we will get diagnostic codes for this stuff.

 

[icman95]

Your problem may not really be anything broken or wrong. Often, the SBC upgraded clutches require further pedal travel than the stock ones. The stock hyd system can't be adjusted, and therefore, can't push far enough to disengage the clutch. This is what happened to me after getting the SBC Con OFE put in. SBC offers a hyd system that is adjustable and once it was installed, I had no problems. A friend also had some disengagement problems with his SBC, but chose to not replace the hyd just for $ reasons. He lived with it and made out ok as his problem wasn't as severe as mine. If you're interested, check out SBC's Dodge section. The last item in the lower right side is the adjustable system-if that's what's going on.

 

[DMcLeod]

Pedal felt firm with the puller on the slave. I've already got sbc hydraulics. As far as adjustability, nothing is really adjustable, except the sbc system allows you to adjust the pedal height (greater pedal travel?). I would think the actual disengagment process wouldn't require very much travel; it just needs to be in the right spot (midway on the pedal stroke). I adjusted the pedal all the way up, removed the plastic spacer from the slave mounting flange, and still no disengagement. SBC is helping me through this and we'll see if the new hydraulics cure this. Maybe something is failed internally? It's interesting that quite a few folks experience this problem. This isn't rocket science, but I'm still scratchin my head.