Competition Match Race of 2006

[Turbo Thom]

Water/meth is out. Rules have changed and to run, they must be adhered to. End of story. Next year , something else?

 

[DHRA]

ok I have to agree on 100% , but the only reason for 100 % is timing enhancement , but how do you police this, water only , that’s hard to police, if you allow fluid injections as a power enhancer , what is to keep them from nitro or others potential catastrophic mixtures

Exactly! Not enough research has been done to find out how to police it. It'll take some time.

 

[sbentz]

As far as rules, I am totally in favor of any rules that encourage safety and reliability. We have played with a lot of combinations, and yes, we have run higher alky % than just "blue water", but quit 2 years ago, as we saw what it could do to the engine, and went back to just the "Walmart Super Blue McFly Windshield Washer Fluid" :-laf . We run so little of either, if water or nitrous were outlawed, it would not make a big effect on our track times, just our spoolup times.



Again, in our "exhibition class" who really cares, as we just do what we want...



Just don't outlaw our flux capacitors.

 

[DavidTD]

but truth be known, he has spent pver $100,000. 00 on that truck over the 3 years I know it's been on the track. . . Preston. .

Not true and lets hope his wife don't read that or Darren might find himself watching from the stands.



Darren's truck is fast with or without any meth added to his water and this rule change will not change that fact.



Next year the single turbo nitrous trucks can lose 700 lbs (currently 3 competing), and the twin turbo Nitrous trucks can lose 500 lbs (currently none competing) from this years rules if I understand correctly. Meth or alcohol will either be banned or treated as a 500lb power adder like N20, or another turbo which will affect 1 competitor. 2 competitors will have no changes using their current platforms. This means...



The quickest truck (Morrison) is losing it's 700lb weight advantage AND being penalized for a power adder that before hand was deemed not enough gain to warrant a handicap.



The 2nd and 3rd fastest trucks ( Garmon & Stuckey) lost their 700lb weight advantage, are the only 2wd's and the 2nd and 4th quickest of the field.



The 4th through 7th fastest trucks (TS, NLDP, Spruill, DJ ) get a 700lb weight reduction. But they are already running nearly as fast as the 2nd and 3rd trucks, and in some cases running quicker.



Simply put, take 700lbs off a 10. 90 TS machine. Take 700lbs off NLDP 11. 0 machine, Spruill's 11. 2 machine. No change for a 10. 80 machine and 11. 0 machine of Stuckey or Garmon, and add 500 lbs to Morrison that was quickest of the field and only user of alcohol. These are the facts for how the new rules proposed will impact the current racers.

 

[Turbo Thom]

My, my, David, where in the world did you get a figure like that? Did I say that?

 

[Turbo Thom]

David... ... ... ... . I think it remains to been seen how the speeds are affected. Yes he's fast, with or without, but on the strip, what will be the difference? I hope none.



Just think, with the new rules, I could run too. Is that scary?



. . PT. .

 

[DavidTD]

Preston, you know I never voice my opinion on these things :-laf .



The old drag racer in me says N20 is an advantage. As a dyno operator, I say N20 is an advantage. If I look at the other drag racing organizations or associations, how is it viewed? How are rules written for it? Is it outlawed all together?



Cummins are the only twin turbo's currently racing so this class/rule currently only affects the Cummins power plant racers. With this rule we are assuming we can make the same power with either as compared to the other. Is this true?



Can we make 300hp with an additional turbo as you can with N20? I think the actual answer is yes but at what cost. I also think the power is easier to get with N2O as compared to twin turbo's. There are some real world advantages N2O has over twins as well and these are some of the reason's why it is either outlawed or in Indexed style classes.



A rule change was not needed for 2006. No Limit came to Indy for their first ever pass at a Pro Street race in a Reg. Cab 4x4. This is a comparable platform to Darren. They ran an impressive 11. 07 @ 123mph. Darren after two years of research and development went 10. 61 @ 122 then lost the motor on the following 10. 83 @ 120 pass. Darren had a year and a half head start over No Limit and was quicker, but not faster which is an indication of HP. TS Performance was . 010 slower than Darren all year in 2004 with the same R&D. They also actually set both ET and MPH records and were the 1st Pro Street truck in the 11's (Atlanta 2003) and 1st in the 10's ( Michigan 2004). This does not indicate to me an advantage for twin turbo trucks. And let me honestly ask anyone, given the above, what do you predict will happen when 700 lbs is removed from the above N20 trucks?



What has now happened is Darren made an advantage with some hard work, research and development and ended the year with an advantage to which he is being penalized for. In racing, the advantages you work for go away quick enough on their own without rules being changed to artificially make it happen. Those that do things first work three times as hard and spend 3 times the money to do it as compared to the 2nd person to do it. Is there a real advantage for his configuration or did he simply work the hardest? Since the other two twin turbo non N2O trucks (which are 2wd) are comparable to the N2O trucks in the field, did we also just uncover a disadvantage for the 2wd's? Maybe they need a weight break since none of them currently can hang with any of the 4wd's off the line or have we just made thier hope of being #1 that much harder? And since Meth might be a weight penalty for 2006 does it go without saying so will propane? Both meth and propane provide the same level of power AND are both additional fuels. Both have the same damaging affects if used incorrectly. So should the rule with Meth also apply to propane?



DHRA has the difficult task of making a set a rules to make competitive 2wd's vs 4wd's, N2O vs Fuel only, 1 or two turbo's, multiple and different fuels, etc. ALL in the same class. Tough task.

 

[COMP461]

The question is not to make 2 wheel and 4 wheel equal, or N20 equal to twins or water/methanol. But to make dodges, fords, and Chevy’s equal. If one method of making power is not the most advantageous, the racers themselves will move to the softest weight break. We have this same problem in comp, if one class gets to hard, move. Pro Street is not entry level class, and the ideal to make it where anyone can drive in the gate and race anything is not in the best interest of the sport. There are other classes for that, but Pro Street will evolve in to a pure race class, like Pro Stock, if left to evolve it self. As new ways of making power evolve, some of the hardest weight breaks will become softer, and more popular. But for now what ever is the fastest way to get there is the only way.

 

[Turbo Thom]

David... ... . I will say, we mostly agree, and I like your post.



My point from the start of this discussion is the fact that one truck is going to be penalized. I understand why, I just don't like it.



One point I willl ask about, is twin's. Let's say runnin a single, say, S300 and nitros. 300 HP in a bottle is certainly cheaper than all it takes for a twin setup to be put together and tuned. The cheapest way to go is a given.



700 lbs? That's a world of difference. That's a story in itself, to me. We added 700 for Jeff to make the weight at 5500. Take that out, with motor only, a little chassis tuning and you will have a bad 2 wheel drive hot rod. And to say Darren has worked hard, is a misnomer. I've never seen anybody put as much of himself into one project as him.



What has to happen for a 2 wheel drive to hook with that 4X4? We just gotta try stuff till we find the answer. Tires, shocks, 4 link? I don't know. Just gotta try things.





Either way, next year will be fun.



. . Preston. .

 

[GIT-R-DONE]

Why isnt Rhonda on your list for racing? She has a fast ride as well. Well ?

 

[DavidTD]

I haven't mentioned Rhonda because she is not a DHRA Pro Street Racer and this dicussion has turned into a 2006 rule thread. It shouldn't and David Lott has created a thread on ADM so the racers can discuss it.



As far as Rhonda though, from what I heard, the racers would need to create a tree handicap to deal with her.

 

[JoshPeters]

Honestly I think the rule changes are due to the infancy of the DHRA or ANY other Diesel sanctioning body. Till the last couple of years, Diesels were not taken seriously, so no one really cared. Now things have gone a long way. New things are being tried, and these trucks are going faster. Right now things may look like the rules are changing due to one person. I think the rules are changing to make things equal for the OTHER people that may be trying to break into that class.



Yes I feel bad for Darrin, it sounds like he will take the biggist hit. BUT look at what has happened in the last year or 2. How can you predict what is comming next? This is uncharted ground. Give it a couple more years to grow and I think the rules will make more sense.



Just my . 02

Josh

 

[DHRA]

Honestly I think the rule changes are due to the infancy of the DHRA or ANY other Diesel sanctioning body. Till the last couple of years, Diesels were not taken seriously, so no one really cared. Now things have gone a long way. New things are being tried, and these trucks are going faster. Right now things may look like the rules are changing due to one person. I think the rules are changing to make things equal for the OTHER people that may be trying to break into that class.



Yes I feel bad for Darrin, it sounds like he will take the biggist hit. BUT look at what has happened in the last year or 2. How can you predict what is comming next? This is uncharted ground. Give it a couple more years to grow and I think the rules will make more sense.



Just my . 02

Josh

Thanks for your refreshing viewpoint Josh, most people look at this through their "me" eyes and don't think of the others in the class. That is why we have the racers in the class give their input.

 

[Jff24Gordn]

So is there a race at Muncie next year?

 

[Rebel Ram]

I don't race. I don't haven't even run on a dyno. I've read these posts for entertainment, and it is entertaining. I don't know any of the individuals who are posting heavily and have a vast knowledge that dwarfs my own, But it seems to me that a "Diesel powered Race Vehicle" should run on "Diesel Fuel Only". Gas run on Gas. Top fuel have their fuel. Alcohol run strait alcohol.

Speaking as a spectator and a Diesel enthusiast, Thats just one guys opinion.