Competition max CC of fuel from 215HP pump

[Cooker]

The problem with the 215 pump is the plunger

Ummm... . I thought the plunger, including the groove in the top, is one of the advantages.

 

[JoshWoodruff]

Cooker

I didnt mean it was a problem with the pump only a problem when trying to get max fuel with out running excessive timming. To get the max fuel out of the p bosch still using a 12mm plunger, the older plungers are better for that. there is machine work that can be done to the plunger also for more fuel. The guys from UT and Kansas are right a B&P change and the re-ground cam shaft with a longer charge time and quicker delivery are the way to really make the power. Sorry for the mis understanding.



Josh Woodruff

www.woodruffdiesel.com

 

[Joseph Donnelly]

Drag Diesel--yes, I'll be at Mopars at the Strip next month.

 

[98slushbox]

From what i've seen, purchasing B&P can get pretty costly

 

[Reb.B]

Go with the 215HP pump. the only way to get a 175 pump to out run a modified 215 pump is to add a modified cam and 13mm plungers with the correct cut on the helix. 175 has a poorly built cam and the cut on the helix is bad on the barrels and plungers. You need to listen to Joe D. on this one.

 

[Sled Puller]

Go with the 215HP pump. the only way to get a 175 pump to out run a modified 215 pump is to add a modified cam and 13mm plungers with the correct cut on the helix. 175 has a poorly built cam and the cut on the helix is bad on the barrels and plungers. You need to listen to Joe D. on this one.

Yawn.

215s are fine for the street at normal rpm, but when you start going max power,max rpm, I'd be looking for a 160-180. I've whooped on 215s since 1998, and you don't need 13mms.

Besides that, you have to get pretty wild to use 600 ccs.

 

[JoshWoodruff]

Right ,Sled Puller, some one who agrees with me you dont have to have 13mm plungers to make power. The 215 pump is a good street pump and can make power, but the 160 and 180 pump plunger design is better for a competition pump does a great job with the camshaft out of a 913 pump. If you need 13mm plungers its about time to be thinking about a different series of the p-bosch, like the 3000 series pump, different govenor etc.





Josh Woodruff

www.woodruffdiesel.com

 

[98slushbox]

I think i will talk to some pump shops and see what they tell me also.

 

[Reb.B]

the 160 pump has a different cam but the 180 and the 215 pump are the same cam but different plunger. The 175 and the 160 are similiar. and if you think a 160, 175, or a 180 pump with the stock cam and plungers is going to out flow a 215, u're crazy or smoking some nasty stuff. Sleddy is just upset that Joe chimed in and others agree with his reality. Hey slushbox98, listen to the guys that have the numbers to back up their stuff Like (Joe. D. ). If you have huge injectors then u need a big plunger and the right cut on the helix to keep the pressure up and to put it in at the right time. Hey sleddy, i'm sure that a 160 pump with two HUGE turbos will take a 215 with a hx-35 and 12 cm housing, u gotta have air too, lol.

 

[Sled Puller]

I believe my trophy shelf is numbers enough. You would not believe the amount of guys arounmd here that rushed out and bought 215s because they read it on the TDR, that it was the best pump.



The money you would spend to get a 215, could be better spent on other items, IMHonestO, and I don't have a dime invested in any particular pump shop.

 

[Reb.B]

well, like i tell people that come into my shop, "Fuel is cheap, but air is expensive", lol. Thats what i've always seen it, . . if you have the same amount of air (ie. turbos, nos, etc. ) and the same injectors, and the same timing, the 215 has always performed better on the dyno. I was told its because of the cut of the helix on the plunger. The 215 will advance the fuel a little at higher rpm. This is also the reason some pump shops will pick the correct 13mm plunger rather than old old 13mm plunger because of the cut of the helix. Also a 180 and 215 compared to a 160 or 175, the cam in a 215 has waaaay more "Fill time" built into the pump than the 160 and 175. If you can't get the fuel in, you can't get it out! 215 pumps are not cheap, but i always felt that if you want max power above 500 HP that you should keep your eyes open for a 215 pump around $450-$650 . Over that amount and you should wait.

 

[RyanB]

Okay, Guys lots of VERY good reading and info here! I am just in the middle of trying to figure this all out my self and trying to figure out what the best is to do. I was futurnate to find a 215Hp engine for my conversion when I got into this $$$ pit 2 years ago. I am building my engine for pulling and want the best bang for the buck but won't sacrafice preformance for a little bit of money.



On that note... I can't figure out what to have done with mine without spending $3000 on my pump because if that was the case I would just jump to a race pump but I need something streetable for right now.



One question for you all is what would be the going price to just go thru a pump, rebuild whats needed and while a shop is in there what could be done to make it scream without going to the larger plungers?



My pump I have never seen running running (truck was a wreck... hit in the rear and tore the box off it!) Anyway, I think I would much rather have a shop put in on the bench just to go thru it insteading of just guessing that it works!



So lets hear it guys... . whats needed inside/on this thing to make it scream. I have heard a few secrets but just want some more opinions. How much rack travel can one get out of it and what kind of HP would that give?



Thanks in advance... Ryan

 

[BradyWilliams]

If you guys are interested we have some 14mm pumps that will put you way up there. Just for the record, it makes a difference at what rpm you record your fuel delivery. Some test benches don't have enough hp to turn a big pump at a rpm thats very high. The lower you run the rpm and record fuel delivery the bigger the number can be. We have a test stand that is 25hp it is a variable A/C drive. It will run BIG pumps as fast as you want it to go. Big difference when your trying to set up a pump torque curve all the way to 5000rpm.

 

[Sled Puller]

Just for the record, it makes a difference at what rpm you record your fuel delivery. Some test benches don't have enough hp to turn a big pump at a rpm thats very high.



The lower you run the rpm and record fuel delivery the bigger the number can be.

QUOTE]



That was worth repeating.

Did everyone read that? Now rush back to your pump shop of choice and ask them what rpm they tested your pump at.

When they can't answer that, ask them how many hP the pump stand motor has.

 

[onestackdram]

QUOTE]

That was worth repeating.

Did everyone read that? Now rush back to your pump shop of choice and ask them what rpm they tested your pump at.

When they can't answer that, ask them how many hP the pump stand motor has. [/QUOTE]



For the answer to that, your shop should have nothing less than a 10hp stand, I can tell you that, that is what St. Joe Diesel uses on there pulling pumps, and they build pumps of all sorts for every imaginable pulling class tractors, from stockers to the 4 charger crazy tractors, and trust me you need A TON of fuel to light 4 chargers.



Russell

 

[DPS]

Gasp, cough wheeze, I have to agree with Gene. THis is a valid point. Joe bobs pump service run out of his back yard garage, that used to work for so and so, will most likely not have enough power to turn a big pump at big RPM. Be leary of people bragging about big numbers CC's is not always what it is about. A good 4-500 cc pump set for quick fuel delivery, will make way more power than a stock pump with no mods that is doing "650" or more.



Josh www.dieselperformancesolutions.com

 

[Bloomy]

Well, I don't want to hijack this thread but I do have many questions. Since I am very confused as to which choice I should make with everything you guys have discussed. Here's the deal: I have the 175 pump that came with the truck with the easy upgrades and I recently acquired a 215 pump free of charge off a 97. The truck is going to become 90% puller and 10% street. If I have one of these pumps built as a 'race' pump which one do I choose? I have not talked to any shops. I am trying to get an idea as to what changes would/could be made that makes a pump deadly. If possible what type of expenses can I expect? Thanks for any info.



Thomas

 

[Reb.B]

if you are going to change the cam and/or the barrels and plungers, then do it to the 175. If you are just going to stiffen the govenor, get full rack travel, etc, the use the 215.

 

[Reb.B]

DPS, ... lol, that statement is BS from start to finish! 1. ) Never agree with GENE, 2. ) nobody with a garage out of their house has a pump stand (at least not many), 3. ) A 400 cc pump is not better than a 650 cc pump with propper air. 4. ) there is no such thing as "quick" fuel delivery, just more fuel earlier and that is controlled by AFC or how fast your foot hits the floor. If you don't think so ask Joe. D, Piers, or K. Locklier, big HP is always begun with big cc's. ... ... I bet Schied has over 400 cc's ,lol.

 

[Sled Puller]

Thast right, no sense in agreeing with Gene, someone who has racked up win after win on the feared "215 pumps", LMAO!

Remember, they didn't call them stupid pimps for nothing. :-laf



Ask Lockilear where they got the injection pump for the drag truck.



Has a pump built by anyone else in your list won anything? Just curious, not bashing.