Thats too specific of a claim for me. I'll throw out something as equally bold..... People NEVER do things "right" because we all have a different opinion of what "right" is.
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Maxxis M8008 Trailer Tires
- Thread starter LandShark
- Start Date
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Thats too specific of a claim for me. I'll throw out something as equally bold..... People NEVER do things "right" because we all have a different opinion of what "right" is.
SnoKing
TDR MEMBER
I posted this on RV.net back in 2009, it still applies today.
"As we banter about regarding tire types and loading, I believe that we are finally starting to understand a few important things.
I have asked many times for someone to explain how a ST tire can be rated to carry more weight than a LT tire in a similar size, without a good answer.
The answer lies in what is called reserve capacity. To quote from Trailer Parts Superstore and this same statement exist on just about every tire site:
HEAVY DUTY 'LT' TRUCK / TRAILER TIRES
'LT' signifies the tire is a "Light Truck/Trailer" series that can be used on trailers that are capable of carrying heavy cargo such as equipment trailers.
If a tire size begins with 'LT' it signifies the tire is a "Light Truck-metric" size that was designed to be used on trailers that are capable of carrying heavy cargo or tow vehicles. Tires branded with the "LT" designation are designed to provide substantial reserve capacity to accept the additional stresses of carrying heavy cargo.
So what is reserve capacity? It is capacity beyond the rating of the tire, capacity that is held in reserve. This reserve capacity comes from the heavy-duty sidewall of the LT type tires. LT's rank at the top of the list when we look at P, ST and LT tires.
Now I finally have an answer to how a ST tire can be rated to carry more weight than a LT tire of similar size.
The ratings of ST tires infringe into the reserve capacity of the tire. This is double bad, because the design of the ST gives us a tire with less reserve capacity to start with as it has a lighter sidewall to start with as most ST tires are much lighter than their LT counterparts.
To quote one tire site:
"Put a different way, the load carrying capacity of an ST tire is 20% greater than an LT tire. Since durability is strictly a long term issue - and the results of a tire failure on a trailer are much less life threatening than on a truck - the folks that set up these load / inflation pressure relationships allow a greater......ah......let's call it load intensity."
There it is in print to be read. They make a calculated decision to give the ST tire a higher load rating because a failure is less life threatening.
I have on a number of occasions pointed out the weight difference between the different tires and have been told that does not matter. Well it does matter. The rubber in the average tire only makes up around 40 some percent of its weight, the rest is in the steel belts, gum strips, steel beads, and the carcass plies. The remaining 60 or so percent of the stuff in a tire is what builds in the reserve capacity.
So to review again, here are some weights:
1. Michelin XPS RIB LT235/85R16 LRE (rated to 3042lbs) Weight 55.41
2. Goodyear G614 LT235/85R16 LRG (rated to 3750lbs) Weight 57.5
3. Bridgestone Duravis R250 LT235/85R16 LRE(rated to 3042lbs) Weight 60
4. BFG Commercial TA LT235/85R16 LRE(rated to 3042lbs) Weight 44.44
5. Uniroyal Laredo HD/H LT235/85R16 LRE(rated to 3042lbs) Weight 44.44
6. GY Marathon ST235/80R16 LRE(rated to 3420lbs) Weight 35.4
So which tires on the list have the most reserve capacity? Well that is not a completely simple answer, as one of the tires is a G rate 110 lb tire and the rest are LRE at 80lb inflation. So if we disregard the G614, then the Michelin XPS RIB and the Bridgestone Duravis R250 due to their all-steel ply construction will have the most reserve capacity inherent in their construction. The twin Commercial TA and Laredo will be next and the Marathon would have little or no reserve capacity available because it was used up in its higher load rating, AND because of it's much lighter construction it had much less inherent reserve capacity to start with.
So what have we learn from this?
I think that the first thing that we learned was that a LT tire can be used at or near it max rated loading without having issues, as they built with "substantial reserve capacity to accept the additional stresses of carrying heavy cargo".
The second thing we may have learned is why ST tires are failing on mid to larger 5th wheels, in that they do not have inherent reserve capacity beyond that rated max loading. Again this is because they have less reserve capacity to start with and their greater "load intensity" used up any reserve capacity that might have been available.
Now, here is an interesting bit of information. I just called Maxxis Tech Line and asked the weights for two tires.
ST235/80R16 LRD 3000 lb rating at 65 lbs of air weights 38.58
ST235/80R16 LRE 3420 lb rating at 80 lbs of air weights 43.43
What??? The Maxxis load range E tire weights almost the same as the Commercial TA?? This is a ST tire that has heavier construction than the GY Marathon at 35.4 lbs. So it has more inherent reserve capacity due to its heavier construction.
Those that claimed its virtues maybe did not know why it was a better ST tire than some of the others, but there it is! It is a heavier built tire with more reserve capacity.
So as one chooses a replacement tire or is asking for an upgrade on a new trailer please get educated on where the reserve capacity exist. Is it inherent in the tire you choose or do you have to factor it into the weight rating of the tire you choose.
Those with heavy trailers that are switching to 17.5 rims and tires rated to 4805 lbs and getting a double injection of reserve capacity, in that they are using a tire with lots of inherent reserve capacity and the tire has much more capacity than the application. It is all starting to make sense.
I have learn a bit this week, hopefully others have also."
SNOKING
"As we banter about regarding tire types and loading, I believe that we are finally starting to understand a few important things.
I have asked many times for someone to explain how a ST tire can be rated to carry more weight than a LT tire in a similar size, without a good answer.
The answer lies in what is called reserve capacity. To quote from Trailer Parts Superstore and this same statement exist on just about every tire site:
HEAVY DUTY 'LT' TRUCK / TRAILER TIRES
'LT' signifies the tire is a "Light Truck/Trailer" series that can be used on trailers that are capable of carrying heavy cargo such as equipment trailers.
If a tire size begins with 'LT' it signifies the tire is a "Light Truck-metric" size that was designed to be used on trailers that are capable of carrying heavy cargo or tow vehicles. Tires branded with the "LT" designation are designed to provide substantial reserve capacity to accept the additional stresses of carrying heavy cargo.
So what is reserve capacity? It is capacity beyond the rating of the tire, capacity that is held in reserve. This reserve capacity comes from the heavy-duty sidewall of the LT type tires. LT's rank at the top of the list when we look at P, ST and LT tires.
Now I finally have an answer to how a ST tire can be rated to carry more weight than a LT tire of similar size.
The ratings of ST tires infringe into the reserve capacity of the tire. This is double bad, because the design of the ST gives us a tire with less reserve capacity to start with as it has a lighter sidewall to start with as most ST tires are much lighter than their LT counterparts.
To quote one tire site:
"Put a different way, the load carrying capacity of an ST tire is 20% greater than an LT tire. Since durability is strictly a long term issue - and the results of a tire failure on a trailer are much less life threatening than on a truck - the folks that set up these load / inflation pressure relationships allow a greater......ah......let's call it load intensity."
There it is in print to be read. They make a calculated decision to give the ST tire a higher load rating because a failure is less life threatening.
I have on a number of occasions pointed out the weight difference between the different tires and have been told that does not matter. Well it does matter. The rubber in the average tire only makes up around 40 some percent of its weight, the rest is in the steel belts, gum strips, steel beads, and the carcass plies. The remaining 60 or so percent of the stuff in a tire is what builds in the reserve capacity.
So to review again, here are some weights:
1. Michelin XPS RIB LT235/85R16 LRE (rated to 3042lbs) Weight 55.41
2. Goodyear G614 LT235/85R16 LRG (rated to 3750lbs) Weight 57.5
3. Bridgestone Duravis R250 LT235/85R16 LRE(rated to 3042lbs) Weight 60
4. BFG Commercial TA LT235/85R16 LRE(rated to 3042lbs) Weight 44.44
5. Uniroyal Laredo HD/H LT235/85R16 LRE(rated to 3042lbs) Weight 44.44
6. GY Marathon ST235/80R16 LRE(rated to 3420lbs) Weight 35.4
So which tires on the list have the most reserve capacity? Well that is not a completely simple answer, as one of the tires is a G rate 110 lb tire and the rest are LRE at 80lb inflation. So if we disregard the G614, then the Michelin XPS RIB and the Bridgestone Duravis R250 due to their all-steel ply construction will have the most reserve capacity inherent in their construction. The twin Commercial TA and Laredo will be next and the Marathon would have little or no reserve capacity available because it was used up in its higher load rating, AND because of it's much lighter construction it had much less inherent reserve capacity to start with.
So what have we learn from this?
I think that the first thing that we learned was that a LT tire can be used at or near it max rated loading without having issues, as they built with "substantial reserve capacity to accept the additional stresses of carrying heavy cargo".
The second thing we may have learned is why ST tires are failing on mid to larger 5th wheels, in that they do not have inherent reserve capacity beyond that rated max loading. Again this is because they have less reserve capacity to start with and their greater "load intensity" used up any reserve capacity that might have been available.
Now, here is an interesting bit of information. I just called Maxxis Tech Line and asked the weights for two tires.
ST235/80R16 LRD 3000 lb rating at 65 lbs of air weights 38.58
ST235/80R16 LRE 3420 lb rating at 80 lbs of air weights 43.43
What??? The Maxxis load range E tire weights almost the same as the Commercial TA?? This is a ST tire that has heavier construction than the GY Marathon at 35.4 lbs. So it has more inherent reserve capacity due to its heavier construction.
Those that claimed its virtues maybe did not know why it was a better ST tire than some of the others, but there it is! It is a heavier built tire with more reserve capacity.
So as one chooses a replacement tire or is asking for an upgrade on a new trailer please get educated on where the reserve capacity exist. Is it inherent in the tire you choose or do you have to factor it into the weight rating of the tire you choose.
Those with heavy trailers that are switching to 17.5 rims and tires rated to 4805 lbs and getting a double injection of reserve capacity, in that they are using a tire with lots of inherent reserve capacity and the tire has much more capacity than the application. It is all starting to make sense.
I have learn a bit this week, hopefully others have also."
SNOKING
AH64ID
TDR MEMBER
Having ran ST tires for many years, primarily GY Marathon, I can say that I never had a single flat I could blame on the ST designation. All 3 flats I encountered were low speed rock punctures on forest service roads, and one was followed by a flat on my LRE pick tires 2 miles later (freshly grated roads suck!!).
I never ran just them at max sidewall pressure and used the proper pressure/load based on GY charts. I cruised at speeds up to 75 mph with them, based on a GY TSB.
I have ran them long enough to wear them out and still never had one of these "China Bomb" failures.
Proper tire maintenance is key.
I never ran just them at max sidewall pressure and used the proper pressure/load based on GY charts. I cruised at speeds up to 75 mph with them, based on a GY TSB.
I have ran them long enough to wear them out and still never had one of these "China Bomb" failures.
Proper tire maintenance is key.
SnoKing
TDR MEMBER
Yep we had a 96 Terry 26' 5th wheel with LRC Marathon's for 7 years on the same tires! Never a problem. Todays reality is the ST 16" LRE on axles derated to 6750 and tires(rated to 3420) with 90 lbs of extra capacity for a fully load axle are not doing very well.
I still think the A/S style tread pattern on most ST tires is one of the major issues, in that they grip the pavement to well and rip the tire apart in tight turns.
Chris
I still think the A/S style tread pattern on most ST tires is one of the major issues, in that they grip the pavement to well and rip the tire apart in tight turns.
Chris
I also had problems with the Maxxis tires. I switched to the Bridgestone Duravis R250 LT235/85R16E and have had no problems in 23,000 miles. On my last Trip to Alaska in 2015 I drove a approximately 240 miles on rocky, muddy, and very rough roads where the maximum speed was 20MPH and the Bridgestone tires held up with no problems.
I have no qualms, and encourage, putting LT tires on an RV trailer. But unfortunately they require at least an 16" rim.....and.....the space for a larger tire. So not everyone can afford the added price for rims and not everyone has the space under their trailer for a bigger diameter tire. So even though its a well recognized upgrade, its not possible for everyone.
NIsaacs
TDR MEMBER
I guess for those of us that tow trailers with 7k axles, tire capacity will always be an issue. Especially if you have trouble on the road, you buy what the local store has in stock. I used to run LT tires for years before ST's became the norm. I don't recall them being all that great.
When I bought a new Parker trailer in '97 I ordered 7k axles, but when it arrived at the dealer it only had 6k axles. When the dealer called Parker they informed him that since you can't buy tires for 7k axles they don't use/sell them. I noticed on their web site they still sell the same trailer with only 6k axles.....
Nick
When I bought a new Parker trailer in '97 I ordered 7k axles, but when it arrived at the dealer it only had 6k axles. When the dealer called Parker they informed him that since you can't buy tires for 7k axles they don't use/sell them. I noticed on their web site they still sell the same trailer with only 6k axles.....
Nick
Nick,
I guess I don't understand Parker's reasoning. The 5th wheel I had with 7K axles came with Goodyear G614 RSTs (LT235/85R16G) rated 3750 lbs @ 110 PSIG. There are other 16" LRG tires available today as well that would be suitable for the 7K axles.
Rusty
SnoKing
TDR MEMBER
There are several LRG 16" all steel tires for 7K axles, with the Goodyear G614 being the costly go to tire. Then along came Sailun with there S637 LT235/85R16G that was an inch larger in diameter, which caused issues with some trailer's axle spacing., which complies with high engineering standards.
Sailun recently changed the S637 to a ST prefix, and then came out with a ST235/80R16G that is the same diameter as the G614 and other cheap ST china bombs.
Our new Bighorn came OEM with the larger Sailun S637 ST235/85R16G all steel tires. Good on Heartland, other manufacturers should take note!
There are now other LRG 16" all steel tires from Gladiator, Westlake, Hartland(new cousin of the Sailun) and maybe others.
If one has a quality tire to begin with, then the chances of needing replaces on the road is greatly reduced.
SNOKING
NIsaacs
TDR MEMBER
Yes, it don't make much sense, however I think at the time ('97) there may not have been much available. Back in '81 I bought a 14k gooseneck flatbed from WW and it had 750x16 bias tires on it, probably rated for 3k or less:-laf
Snoking, yes, you are right, if ya start with good tires, trouble on the road will be less. There are a lot of choices out there now but It is expensive learning what works and what don't. I think the higher the ply the better so I will stay away from the ST E's. when I can.
Nick
SnoKing
TDR MEMBER
If you are going to spend the money for Michelin XPS Ribs, Bridgestone R250's or R500's(the only three LRE's I would consider), why not spend less and put Sailun LRG S637's on it? SNOKING
SnoKing
TDR MEMBER
The R500 is a M+S in name only! It has very hard rubber compounds for it's intended commercial use. Traction on a wet surface is lacking, I know, as that is what I put on the 2001.5 a year or two before selling it. They will wear forever. The people that bought the truck said their son, a Washington State trooper, put it sideways on a dry road getting on it to hard, and because of his driver training was able to save it!
So, if you want or need traction put the Michelin XPS Tractions on it. The R500HD is a highway thread tire really with very little siping, and I can guaranty you will be disappointed in it as a traction tire.
XPS Traction
#ad
Bridgestone Duravis R500HD
#ad
Heck, the XPS Rib would be almost as good as the R500HD.
#ad
So, if you want or need traction put the Michelin XPS Tractions on it. The R500HD is a highway thread tire really with very little siping, and I can guaranty you will be disappointed in it as a traction tire.
XPS Traction
#adBridgestone Duravis R500HD
#adHeck, the XPS Rib would be almost as good as the R500HD.
#ad
Last edited:
Just to throw a wrench in the topic..... I know of a fellow who bought the new 2015 Ford F150. (this is NOT a dig on Ford but just an example) Within a few thousand miles the tires were falling apart. Ford actually warranted them for him when finger size rocks not only punctured the tires from a gravel road but were impaling one of them like a spear. That said, the reasoning (or excuse) for the horribly wimpy tires was explained by the dealer that Ford chose a light weight tire to increase the MPG's. So in point, its not just RV manufactures who are seemingly not after long term drive-ability, but rather they're just happy if you roll off the lot.
Anyone else try the new BFG KOA All Terrains on there trailer? my buddy has them on his enclosed trailer but very few miles so far. He loves them.
SnoKing
TDR MEMBER
If you are talking about a RV, then a rib style tire is much better. Anytime you have breaks in the outer ribs on a trailer tire, you have a tire that grabs the payment to much in tight maneuvers. It is my belief that most ST fail because of their A/S style tread and tear themselves apart in tight maneuvers.
SNOKING
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Issue 128 – Digital Version
Digital Magazines
FREE!
TDR Test Drive - Digital Edition
Renew
Subscribe
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Back Issues
Subscription Status
Address Change Form
Buyer's Guides
Ram Diagnostic Trouble Codes
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