MAYDAY.... truck almost shot!!

[JApplegate]

thurday i didn't plug my truck in, and when going to the bank at 6:30 i went through normal starting steps and tunred the key and wow did that sound intersting. it started but was missing and running rough. talk about a HUGE cloud of black smoke... . :--) . looking down quickly at my volt metter i relized the air heat in the air intake wasn't working. knowing how the truck started and ran i know that the heater should have been on. driving it friday saturday and sunday, never onece has the metter droped to show that the heater was working. so conculsion..... the air intake heater (the one that runs when the truck is running) ain't working...

question:

1- is the preheater (the one we wait for before starting) and the sir intake heater the same??

2- what steps should i go through to fix it or replace it? (and how much work)

3- also most importainly how much does thoses heaters cost??

i need help fast cause one of these days i'm gonna forget to plug it in and she ain't gonna start!! :{

 

[bgilbert]

Jimmy, that morning what did the temp get down too, and what was the temp when you started it? Did the wait to start light come on? How long? Either way it sounds normal for a diesel in cold weather.

i need help fast cause one of these days i'm gonna forget to plug it in and she ain't gonna start!!

thurday i didn't plug my truck in, and when going to the bank at 6:30 i went through normal starting steps and tunred the key and wow did that sound intersting. it started

It started there when you didn't plug in didn't it?? Wouldn't worry about it, industrial 5. 9's start in the winter without the aid of intake heaters. To try to answer your ?'s though, 1: yes same. 2: there is a check/test procedure in the manual, Paychk posted a few weeks ago, all the diagrams and instructions to do so. 3: these intake heaters are no longer available as a new item.

 

[ARedetzke]

175. 50 for the intake heater on Dodgeparts.com, ouch

AJ

 

[bgilbert]

dp.com will show part numbers with prices that are no longer available. This could be the case with the heaters.

 

[tugboatphil]

Ditto what Bill said, Jimmy. I was working in Iowa one winter and I didn't plug in. I didn't even think she was going to turn over one morning. Took a while to settle out. Nowadays when I'm on the road, I run an extension cord out the motel door (I run it in the expansion joint and duct tape it so it's not a trip hazard..... can't afford a lawsuit!)

 

[Fire Marshal Bill]

I hope you don't mind if i chime in on this thread... but came here today looking for an answer to a similar question.



My scenario is quite the same as JApplegate's (i think). Earlier this winter when the temps got down into the 20's and i forgot to plug in i had no problems getting the truck to start right up after a couple times cycling the heater grid. As the truck sat idling and warming up i would notice drops on my volt meter and dimming of the headlights/dash lights until she got warmed up good.



The other day temps got back down into the 20's (not plugged in) and i didn't think i was going to get her started at all before the battery pooped out on me..... but it did finally start after cycling through the heater grid 4 times and a little bit of cranking. It ran rougher at first than it ever has. I also noted that i wasn't seeing a drop in the volt meter while warming up. Throughout the rest of the day i didn't have any problems starting the truck. I wrote all this off to it being cold outside in the morning and the fact that i hadn't plugged in.



But..... yesterday morning the temps were up to 40 or so and i experienced the same problems as the morning it was down into the 20's. Not that cold outside this morning, i was thinking. Something just doesn't seem right and i want to get a handle on it before i'm stranded and looking for a ride to work.

A couple things to note- when i turn the key on and the WTS light is on, there is a definite pull on the battery and the "click" as the heater cycles off and the light goes out... so i'm guessing the heater grid is working okay. Also, the PO installed a battery that is undersized for the truck (i think its only like 850 CCA).



Sorry for the novel but i'm just a newbie looking for some advice and i wanted to be as specific as i could. I'd appreciate any advice from ya'll.

 

[JLEONARD]

The first rule of winter diesel starting is to have a good battery that spins the engine over fast. If it doesn't, then engine will have a hard time starting if at all.

20 deg F is not really that cold... all these Cummins engines should start with or without the grid heater. When it gets into the single digits, that's another story.

Yes, the heater draw some serious jiuce out of the battery. I see mine drop to what looks like 8 + volts judging by my dash voltmeter... I know it really slows the wipers down if I have to have them on... it also seriously dims the headlights. That's normal.

Jimmy... do you hear your relays clicking on? Your problem is more likey not the grid itself. There was a thread on here recently about grid relay cleaning and maintenance... . perhaps that's a place to start.



I'd have to think long and hard before I spent $175 to replace the grid heater... . that will buy a lot of battery power... Even when temps are in the single digits my truck will start without the grids. That's just my opinion.

Hope this helps.

Jay

 

[1stgen4evr]

Every thing Jay said

Plus, get the biggest highest amp battery you can fit on the battery tray. My friend who bought my 89 mentioned that it was beneficial to let the heaters cycle twice out in Missouri over Christmas when the temps went to near zero one morning. He is too cheap to put a big battery in the truck and will surely pay a service charge sooner or later to get jumped off. Probably cost more than a big battery when it happens not to mention the inconvienence.



Does anyone know if the heaters drop out while the starter is engaged? I have never checked but wondered since the heaters put a whammy on the battery and the starter would be spinning better without that load. I am bad about just hitting the starter before the wait to start goes out when the temp isn't really low. Of course it almost never get all that cold in Georgia but I go everywhere.



James

 

[JApplegate]

the problem i'm having is that i'm grid heater isn't turning on when i the truck is running. normal when the temps drop below 40 degrees the grid heater will run whill the truck is running. but thursday it didn't and i managed to get a huge cloud of black smoke. i know about the loud click that is heard when the WTS light goes out, but i can't rember hearing it. i'll have to check that out tommorrow. so... i take it that there is only one grid heater??... the one that runs with the WTS light and whill the truck is running. also i was looking at putting two batteries in her, but confussed about the hook-up. i could make up something but it would be better to get the right wire. does anyone know what they look like??.



on a extremly different point... looking for somewhere new to live. sick of the NJ trash and gov. stuff. any suggestions???... looking for warm (parents) and some open lan (no tornadoes please)

 

[Greenleaf]

There are two grid heaters. Both are activated at the same time as far as I have seen. I have the grid heat system off my truck and will probably part with it someday.



The automotive engine application is the only application that I have seen the KSB and grid heat ( pre-heaters) used on. Used to control emissions only. I operate Cummins B series engines everyday with out the use of KSB and or grid pre-heaters.



If anyone would require parts for the grid heat, you can keep me in mind as I haved no use for such a thing. Or simply do with out



GL

 

[DKasper]

The "biggest battery you can fit in there" factor is definitely a must for those in colder climates.



I live in Iowa, not the coldest place on earth, but we get spells where things hang around 0 for a few days at a time, with normal winter temps being in the 20's. Even when I forget to plug in, I've never had a problem gettting either of my CTDs started. They usually fire up right away -- I've never had to crank them for more than a couple of seconds unless for some reason I've jelled up, got some air in the lines somehow and am bleeding injectors(don't ask me about what happened the day before Christmas )



Anyway, I was just thinking about what FM Bill was describing -- having to crank for long periods to get things going just doesn't sound right. Could he somehow be losing prime in colder weather? I've had other diesels in which compression wasn't the greatest that I literally had to build a fire under to get them warm enough to fire up in the winter.

 

[DieselBuzz]

Ksb

My truck was starting rough and making smoke even though my heaters were fine. The connection on my KSB was loose, I tweaked it and it starts better. It's a possible free fix to check before spending $ for new grids. Also, if I remember it right, there is a temp. sensor in the intake manifold to turn the grids on and off, that might be it.

 

[ARhine]

grids in my dads 90 dont work. Starts fine in our cold KS winters even without being plugged in.



The tractor aplication never had the grids like mentioned.

 

[JLEONARD]

grids in my dads 90 dont work. Starts fine in our cold KS winters even without being plugged in.

That's very encouraging to me because I have a mod in mind that would necessitate removing the grid.

 

[AlK]

For grid heater sources take a look at this

https://www.turbodieselregister.com/forums/showthread.php?t=71065

---

Al

 

[JApplegate]

i'm thining it's KSB plug, because the gridheater worked a couple days ago.

 

[BGore]

I'll also echo some of the previous posters... You DO need a good HEAVY DUTY battery for cold winter starting, the heavier the better. If you've got one, your truck should start even down below zero, and even when not plugged in.



I haven't plugged in my truck's block heater in two years, including during last January's record cold spell (AVERAGE temp for the month was 10 F), and old reliable always started for me. Never turns over more than twice before it's running.



(I felt guilty about doing this, it would have been a much happier lil' Cummins with some heat, but unfortunately I didn't have a good way to get a cord to it at the time, but it ALWAYS started!)



Also before the cold season sets in I recommend changing the fuel filter. I usually change mine in October or November and have NEVER had a problem with fuel gelling in the 12 years I've owned the truck, even with no additives and no special precautions.

 

[KSommer]

my P. O. instaled a 850 cca battery, not enough when it gets down to 0 here in WI. Being 'frugal'(cheap) i found anothere battery that mached the first, turned them both sideways on the tray and hooked them together. now it turns over no matter what the temp.

i also have a push button to operate the heaters, no damn computer's gonna tell me how to run my truck.

kent

 

[BGore]

no damn computer's gonna tell me how to run my truck.

kent

:-laf :-laf