Here I am

McLeod won't hold! Need Advice.

Attention: TDR Forum Junkies
To the point: Click this link and check out the Front Page News story(ies) where we are tracking the introduction of the 2025 Ram HD trucks.

Thanks, TDR Staff

3500's with big tires?

Skyjacker Spring INFO?

Status
Not open for further replies.
Jim,,I'll not say or deny some can not make power in orbit zone(4000 rpm or greater)but,my original question will still stand,,How do you take a motor with a valve train that designed to make max power and torque below 4000 and keep it out of valve float,,We all,and I'd imagine you have also,seen the many dyno sheets available to us and know that from 3400 up in a 12 valve power and torque drop significantly,ever wonder why?,,Valve float is something you'll never hear or see(unless you have a cover designed to see into or read it on a engine dyno),,Of course Piers's truck is expected to go beyond the relm of our ranges with him being one at the forefront of technology for these motors,,To shift at 4300,unless your a clutz with the swift stick,it still should be running way into float range and killin power,,Newer motors(24 valvers) are designed to run higher rpm's and still have tendencies to drop off significantly in the higher rpm's,,The addition of a 4k kit is helpfull to the older trucks to help facilitate higher rpm fueling along with a better camshaft,but,without a better valve train how can they say they make power up there??,,Its a proven fact that these motors fall off up top and the higher you go the more they drop and the faster,,Which led me to my question... ...

P. S. -In a recent flame job on me even Joe D tells you how inefficent these motors are at higher rpms... ... . Consider the technical theory of fueling vs. rpm in a diesel. The injector flows fuel per time. It can flow only half as much at 4000 rpm as at 2000. To make high rpm horsepower, you must use higher flow injectors. The bigger holes give poor atomization, a reason for the huge black smoke clouds. Thus, you may get fuel in at 4000, but only some of it burns. Then you use 100 psi of boost to increase the tornado in the cylinder to help atomize the fuel and burn it. At 6000 rpm the situation is only worse. The time for fuel addition gets shorter and shorter as rpm increases, and the time available for burning to be initiated and completed, while the piston is positioned correctly in its stroke, is also reduced. Thus, while torque x rpm = hp, in a diesel engine it is hard to maintain decent torque (effective fueling) at high rpm, vs. what can be achieved with that injector at lower rpm--assuming decent fuel atomization.
 
One thing about this valve float. It is very destructive. In my youth I though - gee its just the momentum of the valve/keeper overcoming the ability of the spring to follow the cam. That may be a small part of it. It is really a series of shock waves and standing waves in the spring itself. Spring will fatigue, valve float occurrs at earlier RPM,s and on gasoline engine valves ( large dia 2. 08") the shock waves and heavy spring tension will drop the head into the combustion chamber. Or the waveform of the spring will drop the valve just in time for a piston to hit it. The final proof of valve float occurring is the engine in a crate going back to rebuild. If adequate measures were taken to prevent it 4300 RPM would work. An OBTW I do not think anyone BOMB ing thier truck to that level cares about BHp*Hr/ LbMfuel Also known as efficiency. If additional fuel cannot be delivered to more than compensate for efficiency loss then they also lose Power.
 
Hammer,



yeah the valves do float in the higher rpm range. Actually you can watch it on a chassis dyno if you know what to look for. This Sunday at a dyno event I took the truck up to 3900rpm to watch the power curve after 3000 and it dropped like a stone. Partially involved is float or valve spring dancing and harmonics.

Dampners do help some IMO, to quell harmonics.

I was at 450 HP at 2600rpm and once it got to 3900 it was closer to 250HP. Mostly the reason I shift at high rpm is to not have to shift as often when dragin around the streets of Dallas. I realize the power is gone but man its fun:D



Another problem is the fueling curve like you posted from Joe.

Im aware of this, but just because the thing does not make a bunch of power up high does not mean it aint fun. Heck you can feel the thing fall on its face after about 2800. Still fun though.



Anything you can add to stop the float?



Don~
 
sorry blkdawdg, i meant for Gene and the others to see the fight in the ATS post. not really you.



with the CON OFE 12. 3" from Southbend, i and others that drag raced were slipping it on the 2-3 and 3-4 shifts. if i wasnt drag racing it would hold anything or if like Bigsiant said you just roll into it in the middle of a gear it would not slip. when it did slip it was violant and distructive to istself. mainly the center disk and hub. i could show you pictures if you'd like. at 469HP mine lasted 2000 miles :D



i went to the 13" FE and the slipping went away. the inguagement was just as smooth except in reverse and it held no matter how stupid i got with it.



hope that helps.



BTW i can think of a reason to turn 4000 + R's... . 40' out of the hole and 260' to go with an (insert your turbo or choice here), a huge exhaust housing and just trying to keep it lit for the other end when it starts to pull you down :D



other than that, no reason!
 
Uh Todd, just for the record, MY engine don't get pulled down!



60#'s of boost at the 25" line right out the gate, lookin for more!



The Cummins will smoke the tires right off of the rims, it is the Fords and gassers that get pulled down!!



I was stupified how easy this thing launches out of the hole, no trouble at all getting them lit.



LOL!
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top