Messin' with my truck's mind

[RabidRam]

Ladies and Gents,



I am in need of some guidance and I figured if anybody could offer it, it would be somebody from this site. I am really, really interested in learning how to use my computer background to start playin' with my CTD. I've asked a couple people to point me in the right direction, but nobody seemed too keen on helping me out.



I IN NO WAY, SHAPE, OR FORM am trying to take anything from anybody else. I am just the type of guy that likes to tinker with stuff. And I'd love to learn how to "tinker" with the brains of my truck. So all you box makers, PCM hackers, and other gurus need not worry.



Can ANYBODY simply point me in the right direction? A book to read? A web site to check out? Anything? What languages do I need to know? What hardware do I need? What pre-exsisting programs are out there that are helpful? Any answers will be appreciated... EXCEPT for the one's about "you better watch out cause you can really mess things up". I already know that part :-laf



TIA,



Dave

 

[RabidRam]

So nobody knows anything, eh? Interesting. Sorry for bein' impatient. Just tryin' to get some more views on this. And "TTT" doesn't work anymore. Alright... still waitin' for a response. Anybody? Anything?

 

[snowracer69]

last I heard, it is illegal to mess with the electronics of our pickups if you are within the US... hence, the one guy who is doing it resides in Italy.



Maybe you're different, but it took him I think along the lines of over 2 years to get it perfected, but once he had it, CHA-CHING!! $$$$



I don't think he's gonna help you much though... I know I'd tell you to kiss my backside if I had that sort of deal going. Competition never hurt anybody except the lone player though...

 

[RabidRam]

last I heard, it is illegal to mess with the electronics of our pickups if you are within the US... hence, the one guy who is doing it resides in Italy.



Maybe you're different, but it took him I think along the lines of over 2 years to get it perfected, but once he had it, CHA-CHING!! $$$$



I don't think he's gonna help you much though... I know I'd tell you to kiss my backside if I had that sort of deal going. Competition never hurt anybody except the lone player though...

Thanks for the reply. And you have no idea how dead on you are. I tried contacting the aforementioned guy in Italy, but never heard anything back from him. Don't know if he's too busy with his new-found cash crop or just truly doesn't want to help me out. Beats me.



I wish I could make people understand that I am NOT doing this for anybody other then me. I'm not looking to make a living from this... just want to get inside and play a little. Heck, who knows? I might start playin' around, get bored, and never touch it again. I don't know. I just want to know what all is involved in hacking into these things.



I had no idea that it was illegal. That could be why everyone is so tight-lipped. If it's illegal, then... uh... yeah... I live in Transylvania... not Pennsylvania. :-laf



Snowracer69, thanks for the reply. Not what I was hoping to hear, but at least you took the time to tell me. Thanks.



Dave



on edit: stupid question: if you can't jack with the electronics, then how is that so many companies get away with boxes? Is it different to add something on versus changing pre-exsisting code in the PCM/ECM?

 

[CChase]

on edit: stupid question: if you can't jack with the electronics, then how is that so many companies get away with boxes? Is it different to add something on versus changing pre-exsisting code in the PCM/ECM?

Just a guess... and only a guess... but if you were doing it for profit I can see where you may run into a software licensing problem. It would be like hacking Windows to make it better and then reselling it. If you're doing it for your own purposes, I can't see why it would be illegal. But then again, with the laws we have, who knows... ...

 

[snowracer69]

Yes, it's different to add to it then just stacking something on top of it. The ECM/PCM is still doing exactly what it was supposed to when they came from the factory... however, basically there is a new controller on the feedback loop, taking, interpreting, and changing the signal to make the engine do different stuff. The ECM never sees this controller though, so it doesn't know any better.



You can tell a guy 100 times you're not trying to get into his money-making deal, but he doesn't know you from Adam, so why would he give you any inside info about something that took him years to crack? I'm sorry bud, but I'd tell you to get bent... I'm kind of a selfish prick though, so maybe not everybody is that way.

 

[RabidRam]

You can tell a guy 100 times you're not trying to get into his money-making deal, but he doesn't know you from Adam, so why would he give you any inside info about something that took him years to crack? I'm sorry bud, but I'd tell you to get bent... I'm kind of a selfish prick though, so maybe not everybody is that way.

NO... I hear ya. I'd tell myself to grab my own ankles were I in his shoes. I wouldn't bust my rear for years figuring something out, then tell somebody all the tricks just cause he asked.



I say all that... BUT... the big difference is that I am not looking to walk out to my truck and basically redo what anybody else has done. All I'm doin' is looking for preliminary info. Ah well, you're right. Nobody is gonna believe me. And I don't necessarily blame them, either. Guess I'll just have to figure this stuff out on my own.



Thanks anyways guys,



Dave

 

[klenger]

If your intention is to attempt to reprogram the ECM, it is not a trivial task. I think this is one of those situations where (no flame intended) "if you need to ask how, you probably don't have the skills to do it". There is no source code available to the public to start from. You would need to somehow read the program in the ECM memory and then "dis-assemble" or "de-complile" the code into source code or operating instructions. Then you would need to go through the code line by line and figure out what the instrructions are doing. With no comments or any knowledge of what memory locations are used for what, this would be an enormous task. Finally, you would need to change to source code and then re-compile and load it back in the ECM. This whole process would be a real challange for a software company.

 

[RabidRam]

If your intention is to attempt to reprogram the ECM, it is not a trivial task. I think this is one of those situations where (no flame intended) "if you need to ask how, you probably don't have the skills to do it". There is no source code available to the public to start from. You would need to somehow read the program in the ECM memory and then "dis-assemble" or "de-complile" the code into source code or operating instructions. Then you would need to go through the code line by line and figure out what the instrructions are doing. With no comments or any knowledge of what memory locations are used for what, this would be an enormous task. Finally, you would need to change to source code and then re-compile and load it back in the ECM. This whole process would be a real challange for a software company.

Klenger,



Thanks for the input. And I don't take your post as a flame, either. You're right. I KNOW that I don't have the necessary skills. But that is what I'm wanting to learn. I hear ya, though. It's not like they offer classes on this stuff (that I'm aware of). Guess I just need to land me a cushy job with the mother company (DC) and get paid to learn how to do this stuff. Now THAT would be cool.



Anyways, thanks for bringing to light the enormity of this task. I was hoping that it would be a bit more elementary then what you described, but nothing is ever easy, now is it? I was wishing for something like simply changing around some parameters, maybe modifying a few lines here-and-there, and blowing smoke like a freight train. Oh well... one more dream dashed on the rocks of reality.



Thanks for the input guys. Keep it comin' if you want to, but it looks like the parade has already been rained out.



Dave

 

[HoleshotHolset]

Research CAN-BUS - it's the communications between your injection pump and the Cummins ECM bolted on the side of the engine.



Most of the implementations only require a twisted pair - so it's easy to tap into... just be careful that you don't introduce any 'noise' into the system. There are lots of pre-made applications out there that interpret the CAN-BUS info into a GUI with nifty little graphical depictions of gauges, etc.



I researched CAN-BUS quite a bit back when I had the VW TDI... but got bored with it since I hit too many roadblocks in my inability to write code from scratch. If I'm handed a complete codebase... I can work my way through it... otherwise I'm stuck. To top it all off - most developers are reluctant to offer up non-compiled code to someone who claims to have good intentions... no matter if their intentions truly are benign or not.



I'm still quite interested in this area - so I'd be glad to colaborate on a project and offer whatever I can to the cause.



Matt

 

[RonsRig]

Holeshot,

I am a computer programmer and most new programs are just variations of some other program with a few changes to make it do what you want it to do and change the name to protect the guilty.

 

[HoleshotHolset]

... most new programs are just variations of some other program with a few changes to make it do what you want it to do and change the name to protect the guilty.

I'll agree to that... to a certain extent. I'll be the first to admit that even brand new apps use ABC (already been coded/chewed) parts. But, what kind of parts would you suggest to use for this type of project? That's when my lack of programming expertise kicks in. I don't know how to pick and choose the ABC stuff and slap it all together...



I haven't looked on Sourceforge or anything like that, though... so maybe someone else has BTDT (been there done that) with a similar project. Hrmmmm... .



Matt