MIG versus stick current draw

[JStieger]

***Warning - Novice Welding Questions Follows*** :-laf



I'm doing research on purchasing a MIG versus stick welder and in general I noticed for the same amp output that the current draw / input from the wall outlet is slightly lower for a MIG than a stick welder.



Why is that?



All things being equal, does 150 amp output on a MIG produce the same quality weld as 150 amp output on a stick welder?

 

[Bob4x4]

150 amps on a stick welder you must be welding some thick stuff

 

[GHarman]

GMAW vs GTAW

JStieger, I am going to try to tackle this issue. The input amperage has absolutely nothing to do with the quality of a weld.

You are comparing two vegetables here:-laf. They both grow out of the ground, both are good for food but they taste completely different and if improperly prepared, suck really bad.

Mig (GMAW) is a Constant Voltage welding process that uses a continuous wire electrode feed that is also the filler metal and is part of the electrical current path as it contacts the tip of the gun. It requires a grounded work piece and a point and pull the trigger to initiate the arc. This method uses a seperate cover gas (CO2 or a mix of gasses) as a cover for a molten puddle

Stick welding (SMAW) is a Constant Current welding process that uses seperate electrodes with a flux coating that acts as a cover for the molten puddle. It requires a manual arc strike (excellent hand/eye coordination) to initiate the weld puddle on a grounded workpiece.

MIG is an easier process to master but it does require some mechanical ability to keep one running.

Stick is an art form and requires a considerable amount of skill to master.

The quality of welds are dependent on your skill level, preparation and selection of filler metals.

Both methods have their place and can deliver quality welds with practice. GMAW is probably the best choice for the home shop where you are working inside on thin materials. Less distortion because there is a narrower heat affected zone than a typical SMAW weld. Stick works great for those with experience and on a wider variety of materials as well as dissimilar materials. The only concern with your input apmperage that I see is the proper sizing of your electrical service and the duty cycle of your chosen process/power supply. There is ALOT of new stuff out there since I was welding, so ask alot of questionsOo. ! GregH

 

[Bessler]

You summed it up pretty good Greg. Stieger for a novice Id go to a junior college and take a welding class try out the different machines to see what fits you application and skill ability.

 

[JStieger]

The only concern with your input apmperage that I see is the proper sizing of your electrical service and the duty cycle of your chosen process/power supply.

That's exactly why I asked the question! My wife and I changed our electric range to a gas stove so that gave us (me!!) a power source for the garage that was right next to the wall in which the electric range outlet was wired. This circuit is only rated for 40 amps though.

MIG is an easier process to master but it does require some mechanical ability to keep one running.

Stick is an art form and requires a considerable amount of skill to master.

That's my dilemna. I totally respect and admire "old school" handiwork compared to the stuff I see on those Saturday TV shows. Ideally I would like both, but I have to settle for one, and right now I am 75/25 on stick versus MIG.

Id go to a junior college and take a welding class try out the different machines to see what fits you application and skill ability.

I already took a a one term 3-credit night school college class "Welding 1" and it was just safe work practices (#1), oxy/acetylene, and SMAW. At first it was the most frustrating thing, but once I started getting the hang of the "art" it was very empowering and addictive. There were more than a few students in the class hounding the instructor to teach them GMAW, but the instructor stood firm in terms of taking the time to learn the skill and art first and then the rest will come naturally. I'm just waiting for the college schedule to align with my work schedule so that I can continue onto to Welding 2 (SMAW in vertical position and introduction to GMAW).

150 amps on a stick welder you must be welding some thick stuff

:-laf I just picked numbers randomly off the literature! I just wanted to compare requirements for similar current outputs to the circuit I had available. I know I would probably never go that high. For example, 160 amps output on a Miller 212 MIG was ~ 27 amps input draw. However, on a Thunderbolt stick welder 150 amps output was ~48 amps input draw.

The input amperage has absolutely nothing to do with the quality of a weld. You are comparing two vegetables here. They both grow out of the ground, both are good for food but they taste completely different and if improperly prepared, suck really bad.

:-laf



:-laf <---- just to clarify

 

[GHarman]

Make sure your maximum input amperage (on the machine nomenclature plate) requirements are matched by the power supply circut that you plan on using!

That's exactly why I asked the question! My wife and I changed our electric range to a gas stove so that gave us (me!!) a power source for the garage that was right next to the wall in which the electric range outlet was wired. This circuit is only rated for 40 amps though.

.

The new inverter power supplies use alot less input amperage than the older and cheaper rectifier power supplies. Check the machine requirements first. GregH

 

[opjohnny]

My advice, Get the mig now and the tig/stick welder next year! Year after that the plasma cutter. I have a tig/stick machine and a small plasma cutter. Right now I am trying to rat hole money for a mig. I just got a portable welding table for my birthday, I have a space problem. I am waiting to enroll in a tig class at the jr college. I took a stick class there, great fun. Oh and listen to Greg. Once you start its hard to stop.



John

 

[GHarman]

Dont ferget "CoalSmoke", "DValentine" , "DJW", JGIES, JWelch and a host of other hands to help with your welding questions. Also check out the "I want to learn to weld" sticky! GregH

 

[PToombs]

(excellent hand/eye coordination)

Thanks Greg! I just figured out why I have such a hard time starting an arc.

I just thought it was wet rod or something. :-laf

 

[GHarman]

My excuses are; "I fergot to turn the machine power switch, ON"! and "OOPS I fergot to hook up the GROUND"!:-laf Then there's; Yer buddy disconnects the quick connect on yer lead whilst you are dropping yer hood :-laf and dont ferget he can also kill your power supply. 'Course there's always the welder ran outta gas (diesel) and the fuel filter got plugged! Theres always the premadonna that JUST CANT MAKE THIS MACHINE RUN#@$%! Course then I get to use that machine. HEE HEE!:-laf. GregH

 

[Bob4x4]

.

I already took a a one term 3-credit night school college class "Welding 1" and it was just safe work practices (#1), oxy/acetylene, and SMAW. At first it was the most frustrating thing, but once I started getting the hang of the "art" it was very empowering and addictive. There were more than a few students in the class hounding the instructor to teach them GMAW, but the instructor stood firm in terms of taking the time to learn the skill and art first and then the rest will come naturally. I'm just waiting for the college schedule to align with my work schedule so that I can continue onto to Welding 2 (SMAW in vertical position and introduction to GMAW).

Good advise once you learn the basics with Oxy/acet and stick. you can become an artist with Mig very quickly.

 

[rbattelle]

Stick is an art form and requires a considerable amount of skill to master.

That's for sure. But as a result, it's all the more rewarding.



I'm a total novice, but I've never had a weld fail. And I've welded a couple things that support a pretty decent weight.



I prefer working with thick (1/8" or thicker) metals, and I like STRONG stuff, so stick is a good choice for me.



Stick requires no shielding gas, and can be used in windy conditions.



It's been 6 months since I welded anything. I'm hurting for a fix. :{



Ryan

 

[Bob Cochran]

Since most cannot have a Stick, MIG, or TIG witch one is the most versatile for all situations. From my reading I would think TIG is the one even though a little expensive? Just furious I currently have a Lincoln Stick but at some point will need another specially for thin sheet metal. With the stick for thin metal have to turn the heat way down and still can blow right through and make a mess. Now if heavy like 1/8" or thicker no problem like the stick.

 

[Coalsmoke]

Thanks Greg for the shout-out

I have mig, tig, and stick, and have owned welders from garage sale quality to my newest tig unit which rivals the price of a new small car. At any given point, I might be reaching for any of those three processes, or one of their sub processes. As far as general versatility, the mig is a winner to most 'general' users, but I can stick weld almost anywhere, and I can tig weld almost anything, save maybe for a fir 2x4:-laf Ok, I'm just taking the long way around to suggest that the first point towards picking the right machine is not power requirements but rather your welding application. Are you going to do thin material, sheet metal, how thin, 16ga stay on the ball thin, or 26ga feels more like paper thin, or razor blade thin at a puckering 6 thousandths of an inch thin. How thick? A small mig will have a hard time welding large pieces, but a decent stick welder can handle material over an inch thick without worry. Will it just be carbon steels you are welding, or perhaps stainless too, what about aluminum, exotic alloys? Probably not, but you never know what a person would like to be able to weld, so a person has got to ask. Also, how easy would you like to make the learning curve on yourself. If you want to just be able to pick up a welder a couple times a year and weld a repair on the lawnmower's deck without a bunch or looking up books and re-learning, a tig welder is not going to be your best bet.

So, consider your application and then look for a welder that will fit your power requirements and other factors.

Happy welding

 

[icman95]

You mention that your stove connection leaves you with a 40 amp input. I may be stating the obvious, but that's 40 amps at 220 volts. My MIG welder is the type the average homeowner would use and it runs on 110 regular household current. Be sure you are comparing apples to apples in this case. Sure you can find a 220 volt unit out there, but is it really necessary? It you want to take it with you to a buddy's house or something like that, will he have a 220 volt setup you can use? Probably not. A 110 volt is more versatile in this respect.

 

[WDixon27]

it depends on the unit on how much it draws what it can handle and what you use it for, my 110v snap on mm140 will push 140 amps with 100% duty cycle and requests a 30 amp breaker, it gets used on a 20 amp circuit and 99% of the time its not a problem as i hardly ever need to crank it up

 

[icman95]

Yup, that's where I was going with my previous post. My Weldmark is rated at 135 output with a 30 amp 110volt input. I run in on a 15 amp ciruit because that's all I have in the garage. If I need to turn it up, I plug it into my generator and that's good for 23 amps. I haven't found a need for more than that. Most stuff homeowners are going to do don't require anything more.

 

[JStieger]

Thanks for all the great advice, especially stepping back and looking at intended use the majority of time as about the 110 circuit for a small MIG.



My intended use is defintely not for production - more for hobby.



I like the idea of using the MIG for body work and other thin metal work and I think that's where the smaller 110 volt units would be perfect and the purchase of which would be easier to justify with the CFO :-laf.



When I resto-modded my Jeep, my friend that showed me how to do body work did not have a MIG so he used oxy/acetylene. It was slow, but worked well with copper backing for something as old as a 45 Jeep body that was never perfect from the factory anyway. He tried a stick welder on the lowest setting on hidden body panels, and it just burned holes through everything! :{

Originally Posted by GHarman

Stick is an art form and requires a considerable amount of skill to master.

Originally Posted by rbattelle

That's for sure. But as a result, it's all the more rewarding.

The above basically states how I feel too. I respect and admire the art form and skill set required for stick welding as well as the overall utility of it.



I think for the initial lower cost outlay I can get a pretty good stick welder and then when the need arises spend a little more for a small MIG.



Heck, my friend mentioned above has one of those red Lincoln tombstone stick welders and has made many a trailer, hitches, brackets, shelves, tables, etc

 

[PToombs]

If you do buy a 110v Mig, get a quality one. I stored my buddies Snap On 110 mig, and used it quite a bit. I don't know what model it was, but I wasn't impressed. For exhaust and thin stuff it was ok, anything thicker than 1/8, it sucked (I'm not knocking Snap On, maybe this was a bottom line welder)

Now I have my cousins Miller 110 mig, and I can weld 1/4" and over steel easy.

 

[nickleinonen]

it's been 6 months since I welded anything. I'm hurting for a fix.

i think i've gone 6 days... i end up doing a lot of welding at work now as my new position is in the facility maintenance department. very rarely work on locomotives anymore, but i have to fix the shop and the equipment used to work on the locomotives.

my last bit of stick welding for actual work related stuff was getting the wheel milling machine back together. the machine failed and in the process tore some welds on 1" plate. i can't stick weld vert or overhead very well, but i had to get this vert weld done. 5/32" 7018 on some machine that didn't have any numbers left on the scale so played with it until it didn't stick the rod to the steel like a magnet. . looked like bird poop. probably should have used some 1/8" but i didn't feel like looking for some and i had been there for 16 hours fixing the machine and wanted to get done and go home.


oh, and it sucks getting called at 2:00am and having to go into work to get something working again [boilers shutting down, waste water treatment plant in alarm & fuel plant not flowing are the big 3 problems that are common]