Engine/Transmission (1998.5 - 2002) Missing like it has bad plugs!

[KLauber]

We were driving to NC from Greenville, SC in my son's 98. 5 2500. truck is all stock, we've had it only a month. New oil, brakes, brake fluid, new steering box, plus new tires too! Anyway we stopped for a driver change and like any good ol trucker (former life) walked around the back while safety checking. Saw the oil spots same time I smelled the rear end oil. yep the driveshaft seal at the rear axle looks like it retired for the Labor Day weekend. Checked the level and it was still fairly full, so we turned around for home (50 miles). Now the fun part... I drove and after a few miles the truck started missing at 70 MPH occasional at first then more and more frequent. I am thinking fuel starvation and my son thinks the trans is dumping. Finally it got so bad, we pulled over and stopped at a truck stop (Mr. Waffle... only in SC do you stop at a waffle diiner to fuel your big rig. . ). Looked under hood at rats nest that was fuel filter. Said what the hey, we'll drive a little further then call AAA if it dies. Started up, ran up to 60 MPH set cruise, and everything was fine. Hmmm. I am a skeptic. After 15 miles, I gave in and mashed the pedal for 70 and it started the missing thing right off. ANd got worse and worse, but we drove the 35 miles back to Greenville and parked it and ran to the laptop to read the good news on TDR. No we have not changed the FF yet and will do that in the morning. The to Autozone to read the codes. Maybe reset the APPS with the pedal trick i just read about. Thanks TDR for all the info i read before cooking up this over long post!



Ken Lauber

Greenville, SC

2003 CTD 2500 4X4, K&N, Hypertech, 100% WVO fuel (thanks CHall)

98. 5 CTD 2500 4X4, stock

 

[rkressg]

This most definitely sounds like fuel starvation. I would change the fuel filter, but you will probably not be able to get it started again. The Lift Pump (just below the fuel filter) is most likely dead. They are not all that expensive, but I would suggest an upgraded fuel system, such as a FASS (although there are many options).

With these trucks, the VP44 is cooled and lubricated by the fuel (over 70% of the fuel pumped to the VP44 is returned to the tank). If the pump is starved for fuel, the internals will prematurely fail. This is typically associated with a p0216, p1688, p1689 codes.

I would also get a mechanical fuel pressure gauge to monitor this. Unfortunately, the VP44 is one of the weak spots on the 24v truck.

Do you know if the VP44 was ever replaced before? A replacement pump can range from $1100 to $1700 ($4k if you go to dodge). If you are a little mechanical, it is an easy change, but takes about 3 hours. The only special tool needed is a T-Gear puller (for the VP44)

 

[KLauber]

think I will go to AZone to get it coded and report back to the central brain here. Thanks!

 

[blacksheepdiesel]

Ken,

Welcome to the TDR!

Yep, have the codes ran and cleared at AutoZone. There may be several codes since the truck is new to you. After having it cleared you can have it read again after the truck does it again and that code will be the one to go with.

My guess is APPS. Try resetting it. The APPS wears out at the spot on the carbon trace that is most used - probably 70 mph in this case. Do not buy one from Dodge, way too much money. There is an aftermarket replacement that is better and less expensive, plugs right in.

Yep, you do need a fuel pressure gauge on the truck - a must on a 24v. Tap into the fuel line right before the pump which will let you know when the filter is getting clogged. When the lift pump goes bad I highly recommend AirDog. Mine has 308,000 miles on it and never had a single issue.

The rearend in my '01 leaked from the seal for a long time too, and I kept filling it up right to the bottom of the hole. Finally read the owners manual and discovered the proper level is 3/4" below the bottom of the hole. Quit overfilling and the seal magically quit leaking!

Godspeed,
Trent

 

[KLauber]

I cleared the APPS then went to AZone and there were no codes. Truck drove fine, but we haven't got it up to highway speeds yet. I'll drive it to work this coming week and let Will drive my 03 which is 100% WVO powered. Runs great and smells good. DOn't know if VP44 or transfer pump are original. WOuld dealer know by looking at VIN? Where to find a good shop in SC? DOes TDR have a list of reputable shops?



Thanks and have a great weekend. Tuesday its back to the salt mines!

 

[blacksheepdiesel]

Ken,

The 3 APPS that died on BlackSheep were fully capable of misbehaving without setting codes. If you know someone that has VP44 powered truck with the same transmission (auto or manual) and is not having issues with it swap his APPS in your truck and see if the symptoms disappear.

Godspeed,
Trent

 

[KLauber]

And the APPS is located where? Hey if you have an Airdog did you bypass the ratsnest stock fuel filter or is it more simple on the 01 like my 03.

 

[blacksheepdiesel]

APPS is on top of engine underneath aluminum housing bolted to head with 3 bolts.

I ran the 1/2" fuel line from the AirDog straight to the VP. Did not need the extra filtration or want the restriction it provides.

Godspeed,
Trent

 

[KLauber]

Cool. That stock fuel filter disaster looks like a ready made dealer goldmine...



Thanks for your help! I'll let ya know how things turn out.

 

[DFerverda]

You can look on the vp44, if it is reman there should be a sticker on it. The 98. 5 fuel filter can be swapped with a 2002 without much trouble. If you run bio diesel, the stock fuel filter has 2 O rings that will swell and go to heck, usually in less then 1k miles. The 2002 filter only has a center seal and holds up well to bd.

 

[LSchulz]

The 3 APPS that died on BlackSheep were fully capable of misbehaving without setting codes.

Yep. Mine's on the way out too, and it hasn't thrown any codes. I've adjusted it a couple times, but I'm going to have to replace it soon. Where's a good place to get an APPS without paying the $300 that Dodge wants for one?

 

[blacksheepdiesel]

LSchulz,

Contact Timbo at -- email address removed -- and he can help you out.

Godspeed,
Trent

 

[LSchulz]

Thanks for the tip. I just called Dodge, and they want $549 for a new sensor. I can deal with the intermittent dead pedal for a long time before spending that much. I bet I can go into one of the digital electronics labs at school and build one from scratch for a tenth that cost.

Time to find a 12'er...

 

[LSchulz]

Trent, that email got bounced back. Any other recommendations?

 

[JLandry]

Trent, that email got bounced back.

You can reach him through the forum interface via PM or email here.



Best regards,



John L.

 

[KLauber]

OK, it wasn't any of the above. APPS was fine, fuel filter (we changed it anyway) was fine, everything worked as it was designed. BUt somehow the bleeder nut on the VP44 was loose, so I guess it was sucking air just enough to make the truck act like it had a set of bad plugs. I mean it was not even finger tight when i went to bleed the line after changing the fuel filter. Truck runs great now. Even better, we added a noise filter so the trans doesnt hunt back n forth for a gear at 40mph.

 

[blacksheepdiesel]

Glad it wasn't anything major but I hate you had trouble with it!

Godspeed,
Trent