Mobil Delvac 1 Users: ????

[TradedV-10foraCummins]

I have 9K miles on my Delvac 1 oil. I have changed the oil filter and added a quart at 3k and 6K miles. Should I change the oil now or just the filter and let the oil go until 12K? I want to get the most out of the oil. Too expensive to waste! So, how long have you guys that use it been going between changes. Any of you do oil analysis? If yes, what have the results been. Any input would be great. Thanks!

Paul

 

[Whitmore]

Delvac 1 is a synthetic and should not be used until after you cummins is broke in this will be between 10g and 15g pending on how you use your truck,sinthetic is soo good that it will not let your rings seat in,if you have been with delvac 1 since beginning than you should go back to cummins premium blue,shell rotella or delo 400 for about 10 g than go to syntheticsI dont think you haved harmed any thing but you do need the break in period

 

[Chief]

Been using delvac 100,ooo so far no prob so far. Been gettin 16,20 with good numbers.

 

[TradedV-10foraCummins]

Whitmore,

Let me clarify. The truck has 30K on it. The mileage figures I quoted were for the oil. I broke the truck in on regular oil first. What I am asking is 9K enough on Delvac 1 or will it go 12-15 between changes? Sorry if I didn't make the question clear.

Paul

 

[GeoVeo]

Paul, When I first started using Delvac 1 I was sending samples to Fabic in St. Louis for analysis every 5K when I changed the oil filter. All readings were looking real good as the mileage accumulated. When I reached 30K I couldn't take it anymore, took two samples and dumped the oil - couldn't bring myself to run it any longer. One sample was sent to Fabic and the other to Blackstone.

Here are my values at 30K:

• Aluminum: Fabic 2, Blackstone 4
• Chromium: Fabic 1, Blackstone 3
• Iron: Fabic 19, Blackstone 23
• Copper: Fabic 1, Blackstone 1
• Lead: Fabic 1, Blackstone 4
• Tin: Fabic 3, Blackstone 0
• Molybdenum: Fabic 1, Blackstone 3
• Nickel: Fabic n/a, Blackstone 0
• Manganese: Fabic n/a, Blackstone 0
• Silver: Fabic n/a, Blackstone 0
• Titanium: Fabic n/a, Blackstone 0
• Vanadium: Fabic n/a, Blackstone 0
• Boron: Fabic n/a, Blackstone 0
• Silicon: Fabic 2, Blackstone 5
• Sodium: Fabic 5, Blackstone 4
• Calcium: Fabic n/a, Blackstone 2501
• Magnesium: Fabic n/a, Blackstone 579
• Phosphorus: Fabic n/a, Blackstone 1152
• Zinc: Fabic n/a, Blackstone 1348
• Barium: Fabic n/a, Blackstone 0

Blackston's comments were "You must have something figured out to get these kind of results. Suggest changing nothing... unless you want to try more miles use. We see no signs in this sample the oil was overrun. " I'm considering going beyond 30K. #ad


According to Blackstone, boron calcium, magnesium, phosphorus, zinc and barium are primarily detergent/dispersant additives, and/or anti-wear additives so I suppose these readings could be greatly affected by the type of oil and additives you may use.

GeoVeo



------------------
'94 2500 Driftwood, Auto 4X4, 4. 10

 

[HC]

I'm currently trying out Amsoil 5W-30, but before that I ran the Delvac 1. I did a filter change at 5721 miles, and then dumped the oil at 12655. At the end, my oil analysis came back as Iron 71, Chrome 3, Aluminum 3, Copper 3, and Silicon 15. IMO, these numbers are "good" although nothing to consider as "bragging rights". Somewhere in the middle of all that I added the foam pre-cleaner to my K&N, and the rate of Silicon contamination decreased while iron continued to build in at about the same rate. I honestly believe I changed to synthetic a little too soon (~12k) and was not fully broken in yet. With your more conservative filter changes at 3k, you should have no problem going to 12k; in fact, you could even consider changing the filter only every 4 or 5k. A 5k filter + 10k dump would be another possible compromise, or even 5/10/15 combo if you get some oil analysis. I would recommend you do an oil analysis at least on your dump at 12k, partly just to give yourself peace of mind but also to have proof positive that your extended oil changes did not cause any problems and also to help you catch problems like air filter leaks which would otherwise go unknown and uncorrected. I think there is so much talk about oil analysis as a basis for extending drain intervals that folks often forget to mention the other big plus: early problem detection.

 

[GeoVeo]

One other thing I should add: I normally drive over 100 miles between "dry" starts and I think that makes a big difference in what kind of readings you'll get. The more dry-starts per sample interval, the higher wear readings you're liable to get.

 

[Whitmore]

Geo you hit it right on the head,it all depends on your driving style!each one of our cummins is subjected to different circumstances,there fore what works for one is not necessarily going to be what works for all,the key is do your analysis and trust the results and set your change schedule from there.
Paul,sorry I read it as if you were under 10,000. you scared me with what I thought you said. hey all is well.
also it was brought up to me from a fellow Rammer that not all walmarts sell mobil delvac 1,aparently they all sell the mobil 1 though,A good note was made ,mobil 1 is not for diesels,only mobil delvac 1 is so dont get that confused any one.

 

[TXRam]

Hey guys, I have a stupid question - when you did the oil analysis, what did the oil "look" like? I just did my 5K filter change with my first run on Delvac 1 (35,000 miles on the truck), and the oil is very black, just like it was on all previous oil changes. I guess it just makes me a little nervous - probably for no reason - but I remeber some guys saying their oil still looked "good" after 5k miles. Anyway, thanks for any replies.

 

[Gary - K7GLD]

MY oil too gets pretty black within 1500-2000 miles, tho most of my use IS short trips with LOTS of stop-and-go. Pretty good point that short-haul use will probably show much different numbers than long-haul use - that's undoubtedly a great contributor to long life for the 18 wheeler's engines.

------------------
http://community. webshots.com/user/davison71 Early '91 250, 727 AT, 307 rear... Banks Stinger exhaust, intercooler... US Gear OD... MORE than a match for every new PS Ford encountered so far...

 

[Vaughn MacKenzie]

When my truck was new the oil turned very dark within 1000 miles. Now that I passed 20K it takes much longer to turn dark, even though it is winter and I do a lot of short trips. It takes at least 3-4K to turn a nice honey color on the dipstick. Amsoilman said that the color or blackness of the oil is not an indicator of its condition, and I think he was right on with that remark.

Vaughn

------------------
'01 2500 QC Shortbed 2wd, 6-speed, 3. 54LSD, Cab & Fog lamps, Camper & Tow Pkg.
BOMBed: RV injectors, PS Boost module, Amsoil air filter, straightpiped exh. , Aeroquip 3/8" fuel line w/tank mounted lift pump, AutoMeter Sport Comp gauges, Line-X'd, Amber turn signal conversion.
Mildly BOMBed Performance: 0-60 @ 10. 0 sec. ,
40-60 @ 5. 5 sec. ,
0-100 @ 24 sec.

 

[HC]

Here are my values at 30K:
[*]Iron: Fabic 19, Blackstone 23
GeoVeo

GeoVeo,
Don't take this wrong, but I have to ask! The only time I've seen numbers better than yours on this board, with any oil, (and no bypass) the individual later realized his oil had "settled" before he drew the sample. I know you said you drive mostly long distances, but I commute 50 miles to work, so if that is the cause my numbers should be pretty good too. Instead, I accumulated about 29 PPM iron in the first 5k on Delvac 1, compared to you at 2/3 that amount after 6 times as many miles!
Are you drawing the sample after driving to stir things up? Does it go straight from your truck into the sample bottle?
Where/how are you getting your sample?
Like I say, nothing intended, just trying to learn more!

 

[GeoVeo]

TXRAM - My oil used to turn black within 1000 miles when I had lower mileage on the truck. I now have over 155k and it does stay cleaner looking much longer. As best as I can remember, at around 3k darkening is noticable and by 6k I'd call it black.

HC - No offense taken at all. You know, after I made my post I regretted including Blackstone's remarks in what later seemed to be such a flagrant manner. I sure didn't mean to come across as flaunting my numbers and apologize to all.

Something I found interesting was that on another forum (24-V I believe) on the topic of oil analysis, someone gave Blackstone's Universal Averages (UA) and they sure didn't agree with what my Blackstone report showed for UA's. For instance: my report claimed UA for Iron is 23ppm while the other said 170ppm, mine had Lead @ 7ppm, the other said 167ppm. I wondered if one of the report UA's was for a different compartment (diff or trans?). Does anyone have UA's to compare?

So what I'm saying is, according to what Blackstone supplied me as UA's, I'm right in there with my numbers - not extraordinarily below the UA's.

Another thing to consider is in 30k I changed the filter 5 times which means 5 quarts plus it's usually about 2/3 of a quart low at filter change and I wait and add a quart when it reaches the level. So in all I added 9 quarts of makeup oil over the 30k.

I bought the truck from my Dad just over a year ago when it had 94k miles, he didn't drive it much. The very first oil sample I had taken was at 99k and was done by Fabick (notice the corrected spelling) at their lab. I only had 5100 miles on the oil at that time (not Delvac 1 - more on that later). The sample was siphoned through the dip stick tube shortly after I pulled off the Interstate. Maybe the truck sat 10 minutes while I talked to their lab people about their prices etc. I did drive the truck from in front of the building into their shop around back where they actually pulled the sample. That one came back with iron at 17ppm.

Fabick makes it very clear on their sample bottles to "Take sample when oil is HOT" and I think I'm doing that. How long does it take the oil to "settle"? Maybe I'm waiting too long? I pull my samples through the dip stick tube straight into the sample bottle. Maybe I'm not getting the tube down far enough? I have ordered a Fumoto drain valve and will start taking samples from there.

Now, for the rest of the oil story. Dad started using Mobil 1 15-50 at 9,200 miles and changed the oil and filter every 5-7k. I switched to Delavc 1 at 100k on the nose and so far only have 55k with that oil (25k on this run).

The iron readings for the samples I've pulled have been:

105,150 18ppm
110,410 20ppm
116,382 19ppm
121,488 13ppm
130,082 19ppm (oil dumped)

The values are pretty consistent which in itself could be questioned - wouldn't you expect them to be trending up? If I'm doing something wrong, looks like I'm doing it consistently - at least they aren't bouncing all over the chart, and isn't that what a baseline is all about? A baseline is most meaningful for a particular set of circumstances and changing anything in that environment, like sampling from a different point, using a different filter (air or oil), or use of additives could yield different results. As far as wear indicators go, what you should look for is not so much at the absolute values themselves, but in the direction they are trending, and how rapidily.

I have only sent one sample to Blackstone but intend to send more periodically as a cross-check. The two labs were pretty close in their reports.

What a long post - I won't do that again anytime soon - nor this late.

------------------
'94 2500 Driftwood, Auto 4X4, 4. 10

 

[HC]

GeoVeo,
Since you stayed up late to answer, I guess I can be late to work to answer #ad


Sounds like you're doing a better job than me of drawing samples; before I knew better I was drawing pouring them off the top of the filter as soon as it comes off the vehicle. Since I started by this method and the goal is to look for trends, I have continued doing it the same way even though others say that this is not optimum. My thinking is that the trend will still be there (just different starting numbers), and on other boards I've seen that in some applications samples are drawn both pre- and post-filter.

Relative to "Universal Averages", my Blackstone report dated at 12,655 miles on oil, with one filter change at 5721, said "25" was the UA for iron. (Mine was 71 at the dump) Based on that, I believe Blackstone's "average" is the average for all oils, with various mileages, that have been submitted for the ISB engine. Otherwise, they should have "bumped" the number higher for your 30k mile oil than for my 13k oil.

The biggest difference is that my vehicle had less than 24k total at that 12,655 oil dump. I probably have more short trips even though my main commute is 50 miles one way; if you drive 100 each trip then that alone would be twice as many cold starts for me.

Bottom line is that I think your numbers are really that good; I hope mine continue to improve as this engine gets broken in, which clearly was still in progress at 24k. #ad


P. S. - The other thing I think this info shows is that those 5k filter changes and make-up oil are real important in maintaining the quality of what is in the crankcase. On another thread, it was pointed out that the ISB engine has a 16 quart sump in all applications except the Dodge, and that was given as the reason for the 15k oil change on all non-Dodge applications. Those of us going beyond 7. 5k should be giving it that fresh shot of new stuff at 5k, just like GeoVeo has been doing!

------------------
2001 ETH, QC, LWB, 4WD, 3. 54, SPA Pyro & Boost, K&N RE-880 w/foam pre-cleaner, ARE Z-series Cab-high shell, Rear ARB locker, and all kinds of synthetic fluids...

[This message has been edited by HC (edited 02-15-2001). ]

 

[amsoilman]

Looking at my chart for Diesel engine condemnation elemental guide, I see the Cummins Iron(Fe)is listed at 50 ppm. This value is at the recommended normal drain interval. When you do extend the drain intervals this reading will go up, but depending on the mileage on the oil will determine if the rate of wear becomes excessive. As an example, my oil analysis at
33,000 showed 35 PPm Fe, then at 63,000 the figure went to 53 PPM. At 75,000 Fe went to 108 PPM, but lab said everything was OK. I did change the oil filter at that time, and the next analysis at 85,000 showed 77 PPM.

I went to 105,000 miles, then dumped the oil. I now have 129,000 on the turck and Iron (Fe) is 67 PPM.

Remember this, Iron (FE) is the highest wear metal in any engine, and there are many other things to consider when extending oil drain intervals.


Wayne

------------------
94'SLT 4X4 AT/White in color. Factory Tow Hooks & Running Boards. Amsoil By-Pass filter, Amsoil Air cleaner,and all fluids are Amsoil. Optima "Red Top" batteries.
BD exhaust Brake, BD Torque Lock, BD Torque Converter, Dr. Performance Stage II Injection Pump. Mag-Hytec Diff Cover,Mag-Hytec Transmission Pan, Isspro Pyro, Boost,Oil temp Gauges mounted in 3 Gauge post mount. One gauge monitors Engine Oil, Trans, Diff. Temps.
Wayne Owen

 

[LandShark]

Amsoilman: What is this 'chart for Diesel engine condemnation elemental guide'? It would really help if you (and others) would document with footnotes when you use information from other sources. Please don't get me wrong; I appreciate your many replies. It's really difficult to discern fact from fiction on the net.

------------------
1995 2500 SLT Club 4x4, auto, 3. 54, 3300 pound Elkhorn slide in camper, AirLift air springs, Ricka dual wheel adapters (used only with the camper on), K&N, DC tow hooks, Rancho RS9000, Hellwig rear sway bar.
108,000 miles and counting.

 

[HC]

Looking at my chart for Diesel engine condemnation elemental guide, I see the Cummins Iron(Fe)is listed at 50 ppm. This value is at the recommended normal drain interval.

Amsoilman,
Good input. What does your chart consider to be "the recommended normal drain interval?"
3,000? 5000? 7500? or something else?