modded or dual cp3

[DeDecker]

im looking at going wit a set of dual cp3 pumps whats some of the advantages and disadvantages of a dual set up over a modded pump?

Thanks

DeDecker

 

[SShafranko]

The moded c flows 30% more than stock and the dual lowers the load on the stock pump by 50%. If one of the c's goes most kits are set up to automatically swith to the other. Dual is a lot more dinero. I am at the stage where fuel is my next mod and i would also love some opinions.

 

[Triton]

as mentioned already... by modding a single you're making it work beyond it's specs for one and making it work twice as hard. That will eventually take it's toll on the pump. The CP3 is a precision piece of equipment. Bosch put a lot into R&D and as with other things in our truck... probably shouldn't be messed with.



Duals split the work between the two and both pumps only need to work a 50% capacity. IMO, that's gonna make them last a lot longer. You're just about guaranteed to not run out of fuel with duals.



I'm running PPE duals myself. It's said that if one goes the other will take over. Well, it may be true with a little work. I disconnected one of the pumps and the truck ran like crap. For the stocker to work you would have to completely disconnect the wiring harness from one of the pump so the ECM thinks it's back to stock.

 

[DeDecker]

if a modded pump flows 30% more than stock a dual pump system wil flow 100% more than stock right. I see a pump from industrial injection that flows 230% over stock look like a pump off a 8. 3 cummins whats the advantage of that? Im needing lots more fuel just want to do it once not try a few different set ups.

Thank

DeDecker

 

[Triton]

I think unless you're really high in the hp, I'd be pretty difficult to run out of fuel with duals. If you are though you could always look into stage II duals. To one or both.

 

[Blacksdieselhp]

I had the PPE Dual Fuelers on my 06 with a TST/Smarty/MP-8 and BD twins. I couldn't really tell any difference. I know that there was more fuel there, but I still have the same truck and right now I am running the same 3 chips and a single turbo and the stock CP-3 and it feels just as strong now as it did with the dual cp-3s and twin turbos. I know that makes no sense, but its true. You would think that the 3 chips would be draining the rail with the stock pump on, but they don't. I guess if I went to a big set of injectors, the dual pumps may have made a bigger difference. I have heard guys bolting a modded pump on and gaining power on a close to stock truck. So i'll be going the modded cp-3 route next time.

 

[OT-OF-HERE!!]

Two issues here, as I see it

1st, I've had the single modded cp3 and now I have dual cp3s and I think the dual cp3s is hands down the best setup. Why,. . it's proven to put out sufficient fuel for over 1200hp and I'm not going there so I have NO problem with making the fuel.



2nd, is the issue of raising the rail pressure. I've recently done some investigation into this and there is a difference between having a ton of fuel waiting at the gate and it actually being delivered because the ECM still only asks for so much at a given throttle position. So you have to fool the ECM and my recent investigation drove me to Mark Chappel at TST. Mark, as most knows, is a retired Cummins engineer and knows more and can access more knowledge than most can dream about relative to what makes a Cummins tick. Now his product may not be the only one doing this, but his new PowerMax has an option of Rail pressure. It not only reads it for you but can also be adjusted to fool the ECM to deliver what only dual cp3s possibly can deliver and then you are using the dual cp3s for what they were designed and you will not be taxing them to a level they were not designed for,... . contrary, you are not even pushing them to their limit.



Mark told me that the Rail Pressure gauges is the next best thing to having your truck on a dyno constantly to tell what its doing. The bone minimum you MUSt MAKE IS 23. 5k psi for the truck to run with good power, and obviously if you want your truck to kick then probably in the 26k to 27kpsi would be ideal for a real kicker. When you get to the 28k to 29k you are in the danger zone. You can adj the rail pressure with their Powermax to blow a RV,..... so it is adjustable to the point I've stated.



As I said, there may be other products that can do this but this is the one I have run into lately that sounds the most promising especially when you consider the other features of that unit.



I think my above comment on the ECM then explains why the one observation in this thread was that the single stock cp3 seemed to produce as much as the dual setup,... ... right,... but only because the ECM was not being fooled and the single stock ecm was able to match what it was asking for as was the PPE setup. Change what the ECM thinks and you have access to a whole new level of fueling. Hope that helps.

 

[DeDecker]

ive got a rail presure gauge i havent installed it yet. the last time on the dyno doing some tuneing found that any thing over setting 3 3 on he tst I was loseing power. tst told me I was most likely running out of fuel at the rail mainly because of the injectors that are in it. I have a edje ez to stack with it but havent hooked it up yet. hopefully I have my truck back together soon to see how everything works. I think I will be going with twin cp3's but dont know whos yet any set better than the other? I would think there all the same due to your mainly buying a second pump its the brackets that are different i think.

Is anyone running a set of twin cp3s tat they dont like??

Thanks

DeDecker

 

[OT-OF-HERE!!]

Sounds like a good plan to me.

ive got a rail presure gauge i havent installed it yet. the last time on the dyno doing some tuneing found that any thing over setting 3 3 on he tst I was loseing power. tst told me I was most likely running out of fuel at the rail mainly because of the injectors that are in it. I have a edje ez to stack with it but havent hooked it up yet. hopefully I have my truck back together soon to see how everything works. I think I will be going with twin cp3's but dont know whos yet any set better than the other? I would think there all the same due to your mainly buying a second pump its the brackets that are different i think.

Is anyone running a set of twin cp3s tat they dont like??

Thanks

DeDecker

Well obviously you have one CP3 and you could try sootman over on Competition Diesel. He builds and mods cp3s so he may well have one for your second one needed. Also he can get you a kit from PPE that would allow you to use the 2 Dodge cp3s then and it is the best price I've heard of,. . also Relentless sells the same kit for a tad more which is what I run and it was flawless in it's fit and performance/electronics. Another option for you is to PM masonic-dodge or timinva,. . they both get a hold of some cp3s from time to time. I got one from masonic-dodge with 2k miles on it. Good price too. Try those members,. . they'll be good sources.

 

[DeDecker]

what about the complete kits such as ATS, Industrial Injection, PPE, and others just a simple bolt on.

Thanks

DeDecker

 

[OT-OF-HERE!!]

It's like anything else,..

what about the complete kits such as ATS, Industrial Injection, PPE, and others just a simple bolt on.

Thanks

DeDecker

you pay for convenience. I have heard nothing but good about all the kits you listed and the only difference in what I stated above is that you simply shop for the other cp3 yourself,... simple. And you can save probably around $800 to a $1k or more. Almost everyone, or so I've heard, uses the same electronics which is PPEs, fyi. To my knowledge the only two that use (2) Dodge cp3s are Relentless and PPE. Now PPE also uses a D-Max in one of their offerings but sootman says they offer the setup using the Dodge pump also.

 

[Triton]

PPE's pump is a Dmax pump made by Bosch and is the same pump as the stock Cummins. It's a newer version though with the FCA on top instead of the bottom.



A kit will give you a warranty were modding the pump won't.

 

[OT-OF-HERE!!]

Ppe

PPE's pump is a Dmax pump made by Bosch and is the same pump as the stock Cummins. It's a newer version though with the FCA on top instead of the bottom.



A kit will give you a warranty were modding the pump won't.

They also make a kit for two Dodge pumps, per sootman who is a PPE dealer, fyi.

 

[DeDecker]

everybody is useing the same electronics? Whats the difference between a stock duramax pump and a cummins pump? I'll probably be going with either ATS or PPE's set up

Thanks

DeDecker

 

[DeDecker]

Where does the second pump get fuel from do I have to run a second line from my fass pump.

Thanks

DeDecker

 

[Triton]

They also make a kit for two Dodge pumps, per sootman who is a PPE dealer, fyi.

like I said... the PPE pump is a Bosch pump... the same pump as used in the Dmax and Cummins. The pumps sold with the kits are updated version of the original Cummins pump. I have both on my truck and they're the same pump... only with the FCA's in different locations.





Dedecker... . you just have to put a T in the feed line split to each pump.

 

[DeDecker]

Thanks for all the info it was just what I wanted t know. Hopefully I can get this stuff ordered and see how it runs.

Thanks again

DeDecker