Modifications to 03 Frame

[Casey Balvert]

The attached memo was recently given to a friend by a hitch manufacturer. It is reported to have come from DC. However I cannot verify its authenticity and my dealer has no knowledge of it. Can anyone vertify if this is an actual service bulletin from DC? I scanned it into my word processor so while the formatting is a bit off, it is word for word from the original.

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2003 Dodge Ram



Frame

Caution: Use of proper safely equipment is recommended when performing any modifications or alterations.



The following recommendations are consistent with Industry standards:

DaimlerChrysler Corporation doesn't recommend any modifications or alterations to the frame assembly. Modifications or alterations (i. e. hole drilling, welding, etc. ) to the frame assembly are the responsibility of persons performing these modifications or alterations. Anyone altering the frame must assure complete responsibility for assembly, performance, reliability and compliance of applicable FMVSS requirements.



The following procedures and specific precautionary instructions are recommended for proper installation of special bodies and/or equipment on the Ram Frame. Failure to follow these recommendations could result in damage to the basic vehicle and possible injury to occupants.



Holes

Holes are not to be drilled in the top or bottom of the frame rails. Holes to mount outriggers, brackets, and supports must be drilled in the web (vertical sides) of the frame rail wi1h the following restrictions:

1) No holes should exceed 20 mm {0. 75 In. ) in diameter.

2) Material between edge of hole and top or bottom of the frame rail must not be less than 40 mm (1. 60 in. ).

3) The minimum edge distance between any two (2) holes must be larger than twice the diameter of the larger hole.

4) Any thru-fastener that torques down on both external surfaces of the rail must use an internal spacer to prevent crushing the rail tube.

5) All holes should be drilled in the frame using appropriate drilling practice and safety precautions.

6) Avoid drilling holes near the fuel tank, fuel and brake lines and other lines and wires to avoid damage to them.



Welding

Prior to any welding, the following must be done:

1) Avoid welding near the fuel tank, fuel and brake lines or other components that may be damaged by the heat of welding. If it is necessary to weld near these areas, use wet cloths to cover these components. If it is necessary to remove the fuel tank, lines or other components, do it in accordance with applicable service manual procedure.

2) Components near the welding area which could be damaged by excessive heat must be removed or adequately shielded.

3) Disconnect the battery(ies).

4) Precautionary measures should be used to prevent electrical system components or wiring damage.

5) Frame e-coating must be removed from the welding and surrounding areas.



Use proper welding techniques to avoid stress risers that may adversely affect frame performance.



After welding:

1) Carefully inspect electrical components and wiring for shorts or other damage.

2) Apply protective coating to areas where coating was removed.

 

[Greg Boardman-RIP]

Hi Casey,

I hope that is good news for you. I knew that DC would have to come around sometime. As for that being authentic, who knows. .



Greg

 

[Casey Balvert]

Greg,



I hope this is good news too. If this is for real, I will have a hitch in this thing be the end of the month. Unfortunately, so far it does not look like anyone else has seen this. I was hoping that is was the real thing but I was a bit suspicisious when there were nothing on the document that identified as being from Chrysler. Trying to keep the faith.



Casey

 

[Pit Bull]

I owner a Toyota Tundra and it has the same type (way it is made) frame that the 03 dodge has. Toyota put out the same type of document. You can't mess with these frames or it compromises their strength. Something about the hydra forming of the metal makes any alteration a no no except in very limited ways. I would not let just anyone mess with the frame on a 03 truck. Hope this helps

 

[Gary - K7GLD]

While the cautions quoted are pretty common to frame mods. I am sorta puzzled that a frame so "superior" in strength, design excellence and "state of the art" has to be treated as though it's made outta tissue paper or glass...



And THIS is a "bold step forward"?

 

[Casey Balvert]

Conclusions

Gary, I wondered the same thing. So far well over 425 people have read this post and no one has seen this memo before? I guess I can only draw one conclusion from that; it didn't come from DC. Oh well.

 

[Fireman]

Sounds like reasonable guidelines though.



2cents US

Fireman

 

[Pit Bull]

Re: Conclusions

Originally posted by CBalvert

Gary, I wondered the same thing. So far well over 425 people have read this post and no one has seen this memo before? I guess I can only draw one conclusion from that; it didn't come from DC. Oh well.

The Memo is correct. You can not modify, weld, drill holes in or tamper with a Hydra formed frame without screwing with its ability to perform the way it was intended when it was manufactured. You have seen the adds where it says your new truck frame is X times stiffer and stronger than the 02 frame. Weld on it and drill holes in it and it will be X times weaker than the 02 frame. If you don't believe the Memo contact DC and ask them before you touch the frame. Just because the dealer did not know this does not mean squat. As I stated in my previous post I found all of this out when I had my 2000 Toyota Tundra, they were one of the first to use the Hydra formed frames. Good luck

 

[mgonske]

I can't offer anything definitive on the memo, just add rumors to the mill. I had some time last Wednesday and stopped in a local RV repair shop and asked about 5th-wheel hitches. The owner of the repair service was flabbergasted when I told him about the DC no-drill/weld policy. He made two phone calls (apperently to distributors, but I'm not sure). The first one confirmed no-drill/weld; the second told him that the restriction only applied to the top & bottom frame rails, and that made him happy, because he said he only drills on the side webs anyway. I dismissed all of that at the time, because it didn't match what I've heard here (mentally dismissed it that is--I didn't want to offend him, I may need his help).



Now that doesn't confirm the memo, as it may just be one hitch manufacturer's interpretation/implementation of what they believe to be the DC policy, or it may come from the same source. Of course, what filtered down to the local guy who might wield a drill left out some rather important sounding caveats from the memo above

 

[Mathew Clausen]

2 more cents ... for what its worth.



Is the rear of the frame hydroformed? I can see the front with the complicated bends - but the rear seems like it would just be "formed" to me. I think the whole "hydroforming" thing gets a little out of hand. Its still a formed steel frame. The boxed section in the rear adds torsional stiffness ... . and makes bolting a pain (because of need for spacers or something). Nothing earth shattering there.



I think the main thing to read:



"The following recommendations are consistent with Industry standards"



The main point is that stresses in a beam (any beam) are on the top and bottom areas (flanges and material near flange) - stay away from modifying them and you are good. These just look like good sound guidelines to me. I am surprized that there isn't more talk of "proper welding procedures" to avoid stress risers. When you get to heavy trucks (class 8 type) with high tensile frames - welding is a big no no.



Mathew

 

[Casey Balvert]

The entire frame rail from front to back is hydroformed. It is also thinner steel then the previous "C" channel frame. While the memo may claim it is "consistent with industry standards" no one seems to know who authored the memo. Hydroformed frame repairs are different according to the shop manual so it would make sense that installtion of fifth wheel hitches might be different as well and that seems to be demonstrated by DC's no drill and no weld statement earlier. What I am trying to determine is whether or not it comes from DC. If it does, great. If not, then it is worthless to me. I know some owners have gone ahead and drilled or welded their frames and that is their choice to make. I am not quite ready to make that gamble. FWIW



Casey

 

[cwcox]

Sorry that I cannot confirm origin of the memo, however, it is consistent with previous documents from Chrysler in the past. Also consistent with any truck manufacturer. All ladder type frames are designed to work in a certain way, drilling and/or welding in an improper location will weaken the frame. Do it properly and it is not an issue. Keep all holes the recommended distance apart, and if welding is required, have a certified welder perform the work. As to the frame being hydroformed, all that means is it was "bent" into shape with a press and mandrels while it was internally pressureized with water. This allows complex bends to be formed without kinking or weakening the basic structure. The "old" way was to bend the steel with a press and mandrels, just no water. The frame is still steel, it can be cut and drilled and welded all day long. If it is done properly, to the manufacturers specifications, the frame will never know the difference. By the way, you will find a decal with similar verbage on the frames of just about every cab and chassis medium duty truck as well as the class 8 tractors, which many times use special alloys in the frame which require very specific care for welding and drilling. And as far as Toyota's frames go... . I don't mean to rain on anybody here, and Toyota makes a fine vehicle... BUT, Toyo's are a far cry from a heavy duty work truck. The designers who worked on these vehicles never intended for anyone to be adding big hitches, flatbeds, dumps, etc. to these trucks. So rather than spend millions of dollars in testing to see what were the proper ways to modify the frame, they simply stated "Don't modify it period". One of the reasons the Japanese manufacturers have been so successful is that they will NEVER waste a nickel on ANYTHING that doesn't directly relate to the corporate bottom line. Hope this helps, modify your frame as you need to, follow any and all recommendations in the factory service manual.

 

[kbarlow]

Originally posted by cwcox

... . modify your frame as you need to, follow any and all recommendations in the factory service manual... .

That's the kicker there is NO recommendations other than don't do it.



Ken

 

[Steve St.Laurent]

The TDR had that sent to them by D/C today. It's straight out of their chassis manual so yes it's an official position from D/C.

Here's a copy of it as sent to the TDR.



-Steve



#ad

 

[dseabaugh]

Now that hit the nail right on the head! They are just trying to protect us all from cracked frames, bent frames, accidents caused when the truck buckles in the middle , etc. Being in trucking for 26 years I've seen all those things happen to people that didn't think before they modified a frame. With higher tensile strenght metals and thinner metals it is even more important; especially when you consider the multiplier effect cause by the amount of weight bouncing around at high speed verses weight at rest.

 

[Casey Balvert]

Thanks Steve. Funny though. If it was in their Chassis Manual why didn't they release this a couple of months ago. Not like we didn't ask them for guidelines. Go figure. At least now we have some guidelines.

 

[Pit Bull]

Originally posted by cwcox



as far as Toyota's frames go... . I don't mean to rain on anybody here, and Toyota makes a fine vehicle... BUT, Toyo's are a far cry from a heavy duty work truck.

Were not talking about heavy duty trucks, were talking about the rules when it comes to Hydraformed frames. What Steve just posted.

 

[dseabaugh]

TO D.C.

TO D. C: Now that we have further proof that you read our threads, WHAT ARE YOU GOING TO DO ABOUT WHITEKNIGHTS PARENTS TRUCK ENGINE? Side note TO D. C. : I told my Son- inlaw To keep driving his Camaro and forget buying a matching Quad cab 4x4 to the one he bought our daughter to drive last year until I see evidence on the TDR that they honor their warranties. Haven't I got a great Son-in-law? He buys a NEW Quad cab 4x4 for our daughter and when asked why they picked out that vehicle for a ladies daily driver: " Because It's just like the one dad has, and if it is good enough for him I know I'll like it. " Oo. Oo.

 

[kbarlow]

Thank you Steve,



Do you know if the Chassis Manual is available at the dealers?



Ken

 

[Casey Balvert]

A visit to my dealer with the copy of Steve's posting in hand proved to be an exercise in futility. The dealer stated that he had faxed my original information (which is similar to Steve's) to his rep at DC. The rep advised him that he didn't think the information came from Chrysler but would check into it further. The dealer advised me until such time as he can verify the information source or until DC comes out with a memo or TSB to dealers, I should not proceed with installing the hitch. So I am back to square one unless someone actually lays their hands on a "Chassis Manual" and posts it with DC's name on it. Sorry Steve, it is not that I don't believe you but I have been getting the runaround for so long, that I am very skeptical about anything connected with this issue. At the very least DC is not communicating with the customer or the dealers. And since they do monitor these forums, my advice to them is to lay this to rest once and for all by coming out with an official written statement and signing it. That way I will know whether to keep or sell this truck.



Casey