Modifications to 03 Frame

[Gary - K7GLD]

My gut feeling relative to frame issues, is that DC has fallen prey to building much of their truck assemblies *just strong enough* to get the job done, with precious little margin or overhead. The same seems pretty true og GM's stuff - Ford seems the only one anymore who still gives SOME extra margin of overhead in most of their drivetrain and suspension...

 

[Steve St.Laurent]

Guys - hate to break it to you but D/C isn't reading these forums. The reason we got that info is because the TDR has been aware of the issue both from phone contact with members and because of it being brought up here. Because of that the TDR had writers working on an article for the magazine on it. Robert talked with people at D/C, other writers contacted hitch manufacturers, etc. I know if it were me that had an 03 and I needed a 5th wheel hitch that I would have it installed based on those guidelines. If you read the disclaimer at the bottom of the page they state that any modification is the responsibility of the persons performing them. Which if you read your warranty is the case on any modification you make to your truck - if the damage is caused by the installation of that item then they aren't going to cover it. All of the manufacturers have the same verbage in their warranties and the same applied to your pre-03 trucks if you owned one. If it were me I'd be talking to the hitch manufacturer asking them what guarantee they were going to give me that their hitch wouldn't damage the frame and if it did what they'd do about it.



I/we've done our best to get the information from D/C above - if you choose not to believe that information it's up to you. Nothing that we can post/show is going to prove that it came from D/C. Based on my experience with dealers I have a tendency to discount most things they say - how many times do we read on here that a dealer said that 24v trucks won't run with 0 psi of fuel pressure and that if the trucks running that there isn't a problem with the lift pump. I know that I've gotten a lot more accurate information from the TDR and the website than I ever got from the dealers. JMHO

 

[David Muench]

No truck manufacturer is going to say "go ahead, modify the frame, we'll guarantee it'll be fine". How the frame was constructed is irrelevant.



No matter what mounting method you choose Casey, it's your responsibility. The only way around that is a factory installed fifth wheel hitch, and that obviously isn't an option at this point.



Dodge has basically said through their lawyers "hint hint, clamping would be the least error prone, but if you've gotta drill/weld, here's some suggestions". They're only suggestions, and I wouldn't expect anything more.



If you want to use that Pullrite, I'd just get it installed provided you trust the installer to do a quality job. That's the best you'll ever get out of this, and changing truck brands won't relieve you of any responsibility.



This isn't intended as a flame or anything, I've just been watching this thread and it seems like a lot of wheel spinning is going on to no useful end. At the end of the day, the story will still be "clamp if you can, have a competent person drill/weld if you must, either way it's not Dodge's responsibility".



That page out of the chassis manual carries no legal responsibility for Dodge.



Personally, I love my new hydroformed frame. My truck handles like a dream. I am more than willing to take the exact same amount of responsibility to install a hitch that I did on my 2nd gen Dodge.



IANAL



Edit: Looks like Steve and I were typing out very similar posts at the same time.

 

[Casey Balvert]

Unfortunately guys you are absolutely right. This has been a total waste of time. The two official sources of information, the dealer and DC, have either refused, provided erroneous information or been totally unable to help me. I am really sorry I bought this truck and it will in all probability be my last DC product. No matter what other people on this forum may think, DC holds this vehicle out to the consumer as a tow vehicle. On To that end they have failed miserably. On the one hand they mandate that you use a fifth wheel hitch on the other they won't provide a means to install it. Really bright marketing strategy, DC.



Casey

 

[boonsur]

BIG QUESTION.......

I am waiting until spring to order my next truck. Chevy does not even exist (in my mind), but I will definately shop the new Fords.



My question:



What does Ford say about (similar) modifications to the frame?



My guess is they have a similar statement, but this would definately be a big arguement for stepping to the "evil-side".

 

[David Muench]

Originally posted by CBalvert

I am really sorry I bought this truck and it will in all probability be my last DC product. No matter what other people on this forum may think, DC holds this vehicle out to the consumer as a tow vehicle. On To that end they have failed miserably. On the one hand they mandate that you use a fifth wheel hitch on the other they won't provide a means to install it. Really bright marketing strategy, DC.

I have to agree, if they require you to use a fifth wheel hitch above a certain weight (and they have to of course, it's much less safe to tow 10k+ lbs with a pickup truck as a tagalong), it should be available as a factory installed option.



However, I can't believe GM or Ford would of treated you any better. At best maybe they would of told you it's not their responsibility quicker. No corporation is going to take responsibility for frame modifications.



I guess my point is, if you trade that truck for another brand today, you really won't be any better or worse off as far as the hitch goes.

 

[kbarlow]

A lot of people on this thread think the discussion is about warrantys, it is not. For months requests have been made to DC about drilling the new style frame, the silence has been deafening! Hitch manufacturers have asked for information from DC and received nothing to work with. Dealers have asked for information and received very little. Owners have asked and received the only response of "don't". My request and I believe Casey's is not to tell us where to drill but where NOT to drill. This info that Steve posted is a reasonble approach. Because of the long delay that it has taken DC to come forward it is only right to authenticate it. Steve this is not meant as a slight on you or your source only a fair request for who the author is.



Ken

 

[Steve St.Laurent]

From Robert:



"This is a relatively new document taken directly from the Body Builders Guide Drilling Guidelines (dated December 4, 2002). Since it is a new document, it won't be in the Dealer's hands yet. It has been approved by the following DCX departments: Chassis, Vehicle Development, Safety and Legal. "



It will be provided in Issue 39 of the Turbo Diesel Register as well.

 

[kbarlow]

Thank you Steve, this is the kind of info I was looking for. It allows me to make an informed decision.



Cheers Ken

 

[TBOB]

FRAME

I JUST PICKED UP MOUNTING HARDWARE FOR MY FIFTH WHEEL TODAY. IT'S MADE BY REESE. INSTRUCTIONS ARE CLEAR ON WHAT TO DO. WHERE TO DRILL AND OR WELD. THE QUESTION IS, WHY IS IT CENTERED OVER THE AXLE? ON MY '99 IT WAS 3 INCHES FWD. I JUST GOT MY '03 DUALLY TODAY. QUAD SLT WITH LARAMIE, FLAME RED, WIFE'S IDEA. BY THE WAY, MOUNTING HARDWARE WAS $140, BOLTS AND 4 BRACKETS WITH SPACERS. TWO OF THE BRACKETS ARE STEPPED. SUPPOSED TO BE GOOD FOR 25K. THE '03 AIR FILTER IS SMALLER AND NO FOAM PREFILTER. I NOTICED THAT THE INDICATOR FOR THE AIR FILTER WITH TOO MUCH SUCTION IS ALREADY MOVING. I RESET IT AT THE DEALER AND MOVED AGAIN BY THE TIME I GOT HOME, 10 MILES. TBOB

 

[kbarlow]

Re: FRAME

Originally posted by TBOB

... . THE QUESTION IS, WHY IS IT CENTERED OVER THE AXLE?... .

That is one of the problems that the hitch manufacturers are having. When DC designed and built this truck they forgot to ask "What do you want to do with this vehicle?". The curious part is that they have not asked the right questions still, even when they know what the problem is.



One day they may listen.



Ken

 

[cwcox]

5th wheel and gooseneck hitches are quite often mounted 3 inches forward of the rear axle centerline to transfer some weight to the rest of the chassis, not just the rear wheels. On our turbo diesels (same with Ford and GM), there is already enough weight on the front of the chassis for safe handling when loaded, so the hitch is centered on the rear axle.

 

[Gary - K7GLD]

"5th wheel and gooseneck hitches are quite often mounted 3 inches forward of the rear axle centerline to transfer some weight to the rest of the chassis, not just the rear wheels. "



Well, actually, it's more to provide stability and less tendency for trailer "sway" and fish-tailing... The difference in weight distribution provided by a mere couple of inches fore or aft is pretty minimal, compared to the potential difference in directional stability...

 

[Pit Bull]

[B

directional stability... [/B]

Interesting, I've had that same problem most of my life Some of you might of noticed

 

[Gary - K7GLD]

"Interesting, I've had that same problem most of my life Some of you might of noticed"



Lord knows that some of us have TRIED to help...