Modifications vs. Drawbacks

[y-knot]

In many ways you are very right, and it's not only limited to the TDR or diesel site , but very common to all such web sites. Every site has a very large percentage of member that crave attention, in one form or another. It's a ego driven thing where I wants to out do the other. It's the same thing you see everyday on any play ground. You don't have to look very hard to find it here, just wait till some new widget comes along or a group buy appears. Why does everyone that buys a new truck have to post 40 times "how long does it take to get my truck, and why so long for my truck". Just shut up and wait. Or how many times have you seen someone post " Have $1500. 00 and need advise"????? Trust me, if you worked for that money, you sure don't need anyone else telling you how to spend it. It's all in the name of " look at me" and "Look what I bought".

How many guff balls bought that overpriced suspension kit from KORE??? Now it's another brand, Lorenz or something, but the story is the same. The best one had to be that TAG unit, what idiot would actually believe something like that worked???? Get real, get a life and get over it.

 

[IStoilkovich]

Individuality it great, I have nothing against it, but being an owner of a new 6. 7 CTD 3500 Mega Cab, my desire to change and make it better stems from the following. Horsepower, torque and better mileage. While I generally agree with your statement that how can someone truly believe they can improve on the design of a Cummins given all their experience, however, I am generally skeptical about the true motivations for how and why desicions are made by large corporations. Primarily due to the fact that all decisions are ultimately made with the bottom line in mind. Having said that, here are things that I believe can be achieved with the after market suppliers and race ingenuity. Increased air flow, more horse power, more torque, better gas mileage and even reliability. My desire to improve my truck in these areas comes from the fact that I have owned a GMC diesel and a Ford diesel. While the Ford diesel pales in every comparison, the GMC Duramax definitely had more power than my new 6. 7 CTD. I know the Cummins is a "better" engine, in that I believe it is engineered to withstand much more than what is released in the current stock form. I believe that the designers know that they will release a safe version of the motor for release to the masses. I also believe that they design the engine with the understanding that certain people will push the performance and engineer it to handle such modifications.

The Cummins is an awesome motor that is capable of much more than its current form and frankly, a little more juice and better mileage certainly wouldn't hurt when towing.

 

[Tooker]

Wolfy, I think you may find yourself trying to do some mods on your new truck when you get it. I have had mine for about three weeks 2,000 mi and am getting 14 mi per gallon. Plenty of power though.

 

[jcarey]

... am getting 14 mi per gallon. Plenty of power though...



From your mpg, it sounds like you're taking advantage of all that power :-laf

 

[Wolfy]

Wolfy, I think you may find yourself trying to do some mods on your new truck when you get it. I have had mine for about three weeks 2,000 mi and am getting 14 mi per gallon. Plenty of power though.

Hi Tooker,



Your paint job indicates a SRW, but doesn't tell me anything about the rear axle ratio (Or your type of use, or your hot-rod habits)



Mine is DRW, so, if your example was the standard, I could expect even less milage.



I've decided that my truck will get closer to the mileage reported by Mel (Bush is wrong,... I am THE DECIDER)



About the mods, ... if my mileage is exceptionally low, maybe so.



This brings up a question.



If some "mod" actually made a significant difference, I can't see why DC wouldn't just DO it, and brag all over the place about the results. Is the cost/benefit return so low that you have to drive a million miles to break even?



Is the mileage improvement mod tied to a power increase(which concept I don't understand), so that the new power is more likely to break the weak-link, then the next weakest, etc. ?



Education welcome!

 

[Tooker]

Actually the exact milage was 13. 95 MPG the first 2 tanks of fuel, with the speed control set at 73 most of the time. Travel I-5 From Redding Ca to Bay Area to work 400 miles round trip. I have jumped onto the throttle a few times to see what it would do, but do not make that a habit. These calcs were done with pencel and paper. The computer was giving me readings between 13. 7 to 14. 7. I took a trip to the coast this weekend but screwed up my calcs by not marking down the milage when I fueled one time. I was getting some better readings from the computer, but it is hard to tell how accurate that was because it was a lot of up and down in the mountains. I have started over again with my calcs, tell you more when I go to work on Sunday. PS, If you see MJarske post on TDR ask him we work together and recived our trucks about the same time. Same truck but his is a short bed Mega Cab.

 

[Tooker]

I was just told that I could post my truck specs with my signature.

 

[TAbbott]

"If some "mod" actually made a significant difference, I can't see why DC wouldn't just DO it, and brag all over the place about the results... "



The reason they don't just "do it" is because the primary driver on all of the changes that have been made on the smaller diesels (including our little B-series) is emissions as dictated by the EPA or CARB or whoever. They must meet or exceed the standards set forth in those edicts. Period. So many grams of each different type of emission per bhp hour. The "fix" reducing certain of those emissions often results in an increase in another type of regulated emission, thus creating the need for another fix and so on down the line. The result of all these fixes is a compromise in efficiency, or said another way, performance. I think the engine makers have really done a helluva job of meeting those specs while still producing engines that perform as well as they do in a stock configuration.



Seriously, does anyone think that the 3rd injection event or maybe the 4th or 5th in the new ones is doing much of anything to cause the engine to run better --- to cause the truck to get more miles per gallon of ever lower and lower quality fuel (at least as far as available btu's per unit are concerned)?



Does retarding the timing past the point of most efficient combustion really make for better performance?



How about the cleaning cycle of the new particulate filters? Does squirting diesel fuel into the exhaust, completely behind not only the cylinder but even the exhaust manifold itself do anything to reduce the bsfc? (brake specific fuel consumption) It certainly doesn't do anything to create any power to move the truck so much as one inch per gallon. (Maybe the Fords, with Jet Propulsion if they'd aim the tailpipe towards the rear instead of to the side... ... hadn't thought of that... )



With all of the above said, the aftermarket performance inhancers are all marketed as off-road only or race only and change the parameters that the engine builders put in place for emissions control in an attempt to make the engine perform better -- emissions be damned. All of the engine makers could do this too, only then they couldn't sell their engines because they wouldn't be in compliance.



The mods do make a difference, as anyone that's ever driven a "chipped" truck can tell you. Performance and mpgs are increased markedly --- at the expense of a little (or lots of) smoke or nox or CO2 or whatever.

 

[Dougers]

Actually the exact milage was 13. 95 MPG the first 2 tanks of fuel, with the speed control set at 73 most of the time. Travel I-5 From Redding Ca to Bay Area to work 400 miles round trip. I have jumped onto the throttle a few times to see what it would do, but do not make that a habit. These calcs were done with pencel and paper. The computer was giving me readings between 13. 7 to 14. 7. I took a trip to the coast this weekend but screwed up my calcs by not marking down the milage when I fueled one time. I was getting some better readings from the computer, but it is hard to tell how accurate that was because it was a lot of up and down in the mountains. I have started over again with my calcs, tell you more when I go to work on Sunday. PS, If you see MJarske post on TDR ask him we work together and recived our trucks about the same time. Same truck but his is a short bed Mega Cab.

I thought my mileage was bad. 2000k and I am getting in the 15's (mpg figured by the old math). Watching the EGT gauge, it became apparent to me the truck was going thru the regenration cycle 6+ times a day. The dealer put it on the computer and confirmed it had 40 regeneration cylces in 2000 miles. Nothing like peeing fuel down the exhaust pipe, huh? They suggested running it a bit harder (higher rpm) to keep it hotter. This resulted in a loss of 1 more mpg. In addition, the engine has developed a ticking noise causing the truck to sound like it is powered by an old slant 6. The service rep from Dodge (corporate) thinks the ticking is a result of the multiple regenerations - too much raw fuel being sent throught the engine for the regenerations. Is this the way it is? Would the break-in oil cause the regenerations? Any ideas out there? Honestly, I wish I had my 20 mpg '99 back. Someone please cheer me up...

 

[Wolfy]

"If some "mod" actually made a significant difference, I can't see why DC wouldn't just DO it, and brag all over the place about the results... "



The reason they don't just "do it" is because the primary driver on all of the changes that have been made on the smaller diesels (including our little B-series) is emissions as dictated by the EPA or CARB or whoever. They must meet or exceed the standards set forth in those edicts. Period.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

With all of the above said, the aftermarket performance inhancers are all marketed as off-road only or race only and change the parameters that the engine builders put in place for emissions control in an attempt to make the engine perform better -- emissions be damned. All of the engine makers could do this too, only then they couldn't sell their engines because they wouldn't be in compliance.



The mods do make a difference, as anyone that's ever driven a "chipped" truck can tell you. Performance and mpgs are increased markedly --- at the expense of a little (or lots of) smoke or nox or CO2 or whatever.

Great explanation, TAbbott,... Thanks!



Sounds like mod performance is "outlaw" performance :-laf



Just have to decide which side you're on, I guess.



Decisions,... decisions.

 

[Metalaram]

Dougers. this is the first i have herd of any problems with the 6. 7. that kind of scares me a little as mine should be here around the 15th. im usually the one who gets the hard to figure out only happens to me problems. hopefully it is just a bad sensor or a ecm glitch and not a potentially big problem for you and the rest of us. please keep me/us all updated and good luck with your truck..... chris

 

[RVTRKN]

Dougers. this is the first i have herd of any problems with the 6. 7. that kind of scares me a little as mine should be here around the 15th. im usually the one who gets the hard to figure out only happens to me problems. hopefully it is just a bad sensor or a ecm glitch and not a potentially big problem for you and the rest of us. please keep me/us all updated and good luck with your truck..... chris

I traveled 4000 miles in one trip and hand calculated, it came out at 14. 676 MPG W/O bed and 13. 201 MPG W/bed, 1853 of those miles had the bed on it for a total of 13. 953 MPG which is pretty damn good if you ask me. I would not worry about the new engine and I am very happy with my preformance even though it is the 305 HP version C&C.



If you want to read about reliability just check out posts by EB on this site he has 35K mostly loaded on his C&C, that is even using the LSD instead of ULSD and no problems to date as mine as also been trouble free for 5000 miles. If I were you I would enjoy your new truck with the most reliable Diesel ever built for a light duty truck.

 

[MJarske]

1900 miles on the truck. last tank came out to 14. 6 mpg. thats the first time I've got over 14 mpg. no regen yet that i'm aware of, but I dont have a pyro yet, no ideawhat the EGT's are. The CTD does feel like its getting stronger though!

 

[Tooker]

2,400 miles on truck. 13. 5 MPG last calc. Some driving around town, the rest traveling to work cruse set at 73.

 

[EB]

Just finished a 2500 mile run today, I went up into northen New Mexico, temps were around 95 before I got to El Paso, down to 30 and a heavy snow shower in New Mexico Sunday. The engine never missed a beat. I'm well over 41,000 miles now. Stopped in Odessa yesterday and picked up a load on the way home. Will be going back to Odessa next week. Another 1000 mile round trip. There is nothing wrong with these engines stock, you modify them, all bets are off, you're on your own.

 

[Regcabguy]

DC Engineering

In many ways you are very right, and it's not only limited to the TDR or diesel site , but very common to all such web sites. Every site has a very large percentage of member that crave attention, in one form or another. It's a ego driven thing where I wants to out do the other. It's the same thing you see everyday on any play ground. You don't have to look very hard to find it here, just wait till some new widget comes along or a group buy appears. Why does everyone that buys a new truck have to post 40 times "how long does it take to get my truck, and why so long for my truck". Just shut up and wait. Or how many times have you seen someone post " Have $1500. 00 and need advise"????? Trust me, if you worked for that money, you sure don't need anyone else telling you how to spend it. It's all in the name of " look at me" and "Look what I bought".

How many guff balls bought that overpriced suspension kit from KORE??? Now it's another brand, Lorenz or something, but the story is the same. The best one had to be that TAG unit, what idiot would actually believe something like that worked???? Get real, get a life and get over it.

I along with many others have taken advantage of suspension upgrades by Kore,Lorenz,Carli and Thuren,the only serious contenders out there as they attempt to enhance offroad as well as street manners while limiting the increase in center of gravity. If you're still running the "DC" engineered suspension,you haven't begun to realize the potential of your truck,handling-wise. I would hardly place these manufacturers in the same catagory with the TAG product.