Modify TST KDP Tab for 93

[Dave M]

PAYCHK:



WOW! Great picture of 1st gen case. A picture really helps see how a flat tab won't work. I'd like to have that tab. I guess I'll try to ground the TST tab to fit. Too bad someone doesn't make a tab like that for us tool challenged (its not a handicap... politicaly correct don't you know) do-it-yourselfers.



Has anyone had luck modifying the TST tab to fit the 1st gen case? Since i have that tab coming in I'm going to try to use it. A pic would be great.



Thanks for that pic 'PAYCHK'. This TDR site is great.



Dave

 

[Paychk]

Dave



Wish I could help you out with the tab, only problem is I just went to 60-72 hours a week and it looks to be that way till after Turkey day. When you get in there make sure you re-seat the pin first, then tab it.

 

[MUDDY]

ok,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,, for all of ya wantin a tab for the 1st gen,[or 2nd gen] TDR member hbowers [harold] has been making these. he also has been making the kdp jigs and kits[complete with fan wrenches and all ya need for a tab fix or a jig fix. [but he prefers the tab fix so ya can check the bolts]



harolds email is -- email address removed -- . his landline 208 459-7849

 

[Dave M]

PAYCHK:

Thanks for Help on this and appreciate the offer. I think I can make the TST tab to fit. I'll try grinding and filing it to fit.



MUDDYMESS:

I'll keep Harold in mind but I have 1 week before I tear inter her so I think I'll make the TST tab fit or make my, own along with staking the dowel hole as was suggested. I expect to do this to my friends 93 next Saturday (Nov 20th) so I don't think there is time to get someone to make and get a tab to me, but I'll keep Harolds name in case I need it and everyone else will benefit from this post and have a source for the tab.



If anyone has anything to add jump in and lets hear from you. I'll update this post with the results when I do the job a week from Saturday..... or if I get in trouble. Thanks all for great info. Lots of good information for those trying to use the TST tab for 1st Gen. I'll try to post a pic of my tab when/if I successfully complete the mod to it.



Thanks to all you TDR members for helping me understand the 1st gen KDP.



Dave

 

[Dave M]

More info for you guys. I emailed TST and asked how to modify their tab for 1st Gen and this is what I said:



" I used the kit on my 97 and it worked great. I'm going to use it on my friends 93 Dodge Diesel. I have heard it needs to be modified to work since there is a step up on either the dowel hole or the bolt hole. Do you know if grinding it would work? Do you have a pic of the case section in question?



This is a response I got from TST about how to modify their tab for 1st gen:



TST said and I quote: "I've attached a photo of a 93 we worked on. We bent the offset washer to make it fit rather than grinding on the cover as we felt we couldn't clean off the grinding debris when finished. I've not heard of a dowel pin failure with the 89-93 VE pump. "



That was TST's response. They misunderstood me, I guess I wasn't too clear. I meant grind the tab not the case. At least they responded and acutally sent me a pic of a modified tab. Got to hand it to them for that.



TST said they have not heard of a KDP failure in 1st gen (89-93). What daya say about that? TST needs to be educated. Am I wasting my time?... . I don't think so.



I can't figure how to use photshop 2. 0 to get the whole 256k pic but I'm showing a cropped version. It's a little distorted but the best I could do.



Here is the pic TST (I had to resize and it became very close up) sent me of modifing the TST tab to fit a 1st gen 93:







Dave

 

[MUDDY]

he's not heard of a dowel pin failure on the 1st gen. we KNOW it happens. seen the damage w/ my own eyes. we KNOW the bolt can and does fall out too

 

[Dave M]

MUDDYMESS:

Great shot of a 1st gen case damaged by the KDP. That KDP is not particular on what its next victum is. Maybe the TST guy used to work for Cummins and is still in denial :-laf .

 

[Paychk]

The KDP in my truck had moved out 3/16", assuming Cummins had fully seated it. I'm sure there are others with similar experience.

 

[hbowers]

tabs

Dave, I made some tabs for 1st gens and also 2nd gens. I can sell you one

very reasonable. you can email me or pm me, or phone me. 2084597849

Harold

 

[Dave M]

Harold,



I'll send you a Pm.



Dave

 

[Dave M]

Finished TST KDP MOd for 1st gen 93

I finished doing the KDP for my friends 93 using the TST tab. I received a Tab (uses a bent tab design) from TDR member Harold hbowers in case I screwed up the TST tab... many thanks to Harold for getting the tab to me on short notice. If I hadn't already ordered the TST tab then I probably would have used Harolds tab and saved time. I decided to make the TST tab fit into the bore instead of bending the tab to just cover the outside end of the hole. I just wanted to keep the pin seated all the way in, that way it can't move in the hole.



I made a paper template and verified it would fit, then transferred it to the TST tab using the idea Paychk used for his tab and adapting it to the TST tab. I used a bench grinder and a round 3/16 inch chain saw file to make the tab from the TST tab. It wasn't too hard to make, but took about an hour fiddling to get it right.



Here is my modified TST tab in the 1st pic. Sorry about the poor quality of pics. Best I can do with size limit here.





The 2nd pic shows the dowel pin before I seated it and the 3rd pic shows it after whacking it into the bore. The dowel pin was out about 1/4 inch or more from its seated position, but still in the bore as shown.



The 4th and 5th pic shows my tab seated over the dowel pin. The tab had to be necked down to about 1/8 inch to exit the bore, so you can't see much of the tab which then goes under the case bolt to right of bore hole. The tab is thick enough that the necked down part didn't seem to weaken it. I used the longer bolt that came in the TST kit to seat the tab. I used green loctite on the dowel pin and staked the hole with punch in 3 places, all prior to covering it with the tab. All went well and thanks to everyone for input.



Dave

 

[Dave M]

More Pics:

A few more pics of the bolts that need tightened. Most of the bolts needed 1/4 turn to reach 18 ft-lbs. All the case, oil pump and cam bolts were 18 ft-lbs torque. All bolts I could get to were removed (one at a time), hole cleaned with brake cleaner and blown out with air, then blue locktited in.



The 1st pic shows the oil pump gear (which is to left in pic) and the 4 bolts that I removed and loctited (2 bolts are above and 2 below the oil pump gear). The bolt to the right and above the 2nd gear (oil pump idler gear I think)from left and below the upper edge of the gear case is one of the case bolts that I loctited.



The 2nd pic shows the big cam gear to the right and one of the 2 case bolts in the hole, on the right side of cam behind the cam gear, that needs loctited.



The 3rd pic shows another case bolt showing through the cam gear (gear on bottom with injection pump gear above it) that was loctited. To the left of the cam gear (below the upper edge of the case) is another view of the case bolt mentioned on the oil pump gear pic. The modified TST tab is shown seated in the dowel pin bore. You can spot it to the left and between the cam gear (gear on bottom) and injection pump gear (gear above) and to right and below the upper case with the longer case bolt to right of dowel pin bore holding it in.



What isn't shown is the 2 cam gear retainer bolts that I loctited by rotating the engine til they could be reached through the cam gear hole. Also the case bolt that can't be removed is not shown and it is to the right and bottom of the cam gear and behind the lower right of cam gear near vaccum gear. I didn't get to it.



The 4th pic shows the radiator removed and gear case cover and fan assembly removed. I did not remove intercooler , so I used a mirror to see and get to all the bolts in gear case. It wasn't easy but not bad.



I replaced water pump and belt and radiator hoses. Those hose clamps were very difficult to remove :{ .



Also, as most know who have done this, the front gear case cover crank seal is also a problem to install. TST just updated the TST dowel pin kit directions (which are very good for doing the KDP job) with a whole page added with color photos on how to replace the seal and what to do with the dust seal. It is very easy to follow. I didn't get the front seal installation page a month ago when I used the TST kit for my 97, but it came in November with this kit.



Hope this helps some who wondered what bolts need tightened.



Dave

 

[BushWakr - RIP]

Great post Dave... . that's the kind of stuff that helps the new and the old dogs around here... . good on ya bud. .



pb...

 

[Dave M]

BushWakr:



Thanks Bob. I had trouble with seeing how to use the TST tab for the 1st gen, so I thought I'd get a little detailed for those newbies like me looking to do the same thing. I didn't get some pics of the cam retainer bolts cause I was getting tired and just wanted to get done.



I had no trouble installing the front seal from the rear of cover. I heated it in oven at 225 degress F while I put the Front seal in the freezer, both for about 45 minutes. I put 2x6 boards on the floor underneath and used the seal installer ring and tapped it in the first time. On my 97 it took 3 (heat/cold) cycles before it went in. The heat/cold seems to really help and installing it from the rear of cover.



My 97 had a bad oil leak and the front seal fixed the worst leak. I still need to replace the vaccum pump to engine seal.



I can't stress enough that the KDP needs to be done and all those bolts in the gear case be tightened. Its not that bad of a job but it took me a long time (2 days) because I'm slow and methodical and I don't known much about what I'm doing... new to diesels.



Dave