More dieselgate knife throwing

[Wayne M.]

Seems our friends and Diesel advocates in West Virginia are at it again. I found this on twitter, where I told them to do the same mountain driving hi stress cycle driving any PZEV gasoline vehicle they wanted and see the results.

http://www.autonews.com/article/201...lvr.it&utm_medium=twitter&X-IgnoreUserAgent=1

 

[TFucili]

Sadly, it seems like killing light duty diesel power may be within the realm of reality for these actors. What's next, moving up the GVW ladder?

 

[jgillott]

I still wonder who is funding the research by the West Virginia University’s Center for Alternative Fuels, Engines and Emissions and who has reviewed the validity of their research. It seems to me that there is a lot of litigation and action being based on their initial findings but very little mention anywhere of funding or any reference to followup testing by any independent source. I now have nearly 25 years in educational research and testing and I can tell you first hand that the smallest variable in the design or implementation of the testing procedure can drastically alter the data. Furthermore, It is very easy to design a testing model that is designed to "fail" under the given conditions. Obviously, our government and environmental action groups are very quick to use West Virginia's data, but I'm always going to be a skeptic until I see the complete data and testing model.

 

[JR]

I read a statement from fca claiming the WV testing was done so at a significantly higher payload than required during certification.

I'm with ya Wayne. I'd love to see the results of any direct injected gas engine performing the same tests. Especially a boosted one like Fords Ecoboost.

 

[JR]

I still wonder who is funding the research by the West Virginia University’s Center for Alternative Fuels, Engines and Emissions

Whoever it is it's almost certainly an investment group with a connection to "green energy". One that will benefit from the death of ICE.

 

[Wayne M.]

I read a statement from fca claiming the WV testing was done so at a significantly higher payload than required during certification.

I'm with ya Wayne. I'd love to see the results of any direct injected gas engine performing the same tests. Especially a boosted one like Fords Ecoboost.

YEA MAN! I see soot on them blown bent 6 rear bumpers!

 

[JR]

http://fcauthority.com/2017/06/fca-releases-statement-on-emissions-lab-testing-results/

 

[wxman]

The most frustrating aspect of the hysteria over these high NOx emissions test results is that no area of the USA is currently in non-attainment with the EPA ambient air quality standard (NAAQS) for NO2 (NOx = NO + NO2), or even in any peril of exceeding it.

Los Angeles was the last area to violate the NO2 NAAQS, but it (technically) met the NAAQS in 1992, when NOx emissions from the gasoline car fleet was far higher than the cheating TDIs (~2.25 grams/mile on average). The average ambient NO2 levels are now about half of the NO2 NAAQS.

EPA very recently (September 2016) conducted a re-evaluation of the adequacy of the established NO2 NAAQS for human health (53 ppb) and concluded that no change was necessary.

 

[brods]

Good to see you are still around wxman. What are your thoughts on the following:

Known back in 2008:

Low-emission diesel engines emit nanoparticles that could be more harmful to human health than the dark exhaust fumes produced by older models, a study by researchers in Germany and Italy has found. Nanoparticles from newer diesel engines are 5-20nm across and penetrated lung tissue more deeply than older engine exhaust particles, which are around twice as large.

More current:

“We found that tiny ‘nano-particles’ in diesel exhaust produce highly reactive molecules called free radicals that can injure blood vessels and lead to disease,” said Dr Mills. These nano-particles – less than a thousandth of a millimetre wide – prevent blood vessels from relaxing and contracting properly, which is vital for keeping them free from disease. The disturbance to blood vessel function means there is increased risk of clots developing in coronary arteries, which can cause a heart attack.

So it seems the push for "cleaner" diesels has created a problem and one proposed solution is to dope the fuel with Cerium Oxide and Ferrocene nanoparticles, but that may just make matters worse. It appears Cerium Oxide is currently used in diesel fuel additives for better mpg. There is research going on, which we would normally never know anything about, that will set the course for diesel vehicles into the future.

 

[wxman]

Hi brods.

Yes I do recall those studies. IIRC, they addressed PM emissions from pre-DPF engines in Europe. DPF wasn't effectively required there until 2011 (Euro 5b). In-cylinder measures like very high injection pressures were sufficient to meet Euro 4 PM standards. The trade-off is that they produced more nanoparticles even while lowering PM mass emissions.

DPF seems to virtually eliminate PM/PN in diesel exhaust:

...Due to the overlapping filtration mechanisms, both large as well as small particles can be held back reliably, thus achieving a filtering efficiency of nearly 100% across the entire spectrum of sizes...

...Since the diffusion speed increases with decreasing particle size, smaller particles are actually separated the most effectively....

https://occup-med.biomedcentral.com/track/pdf/10.1186/1745-6673-9-6?site=occup-med.biomedcentral.com [Page 8 of 18]


So actually, nanoparticles are removed even more effectively than the larger particles.

 

[brods]

Thanks for the link, that is good news indeed. I went searching, unsuccessfully, for the show which aired earlier this month, which featured a university professor from London I believe, making it sound like the link to heart attacks was new and the proposed solution of doping diesel to reduce the nano particles. So why then are they still talking about doping fuel to fix a nonexistent problem? It does appear there needs to be more research into the health effects of Cerium Oxide nanoparticles used as a fuel additive.

 

[wxman]

I agree that using a fuel-based catalyst like cerium needs to have more research into its health effects before widespread use.

What I don't understand is why diesel exhaust continues to be studied to death, while gassers seem to continue to get a pass on emissions.

A few studies that have been done on gasoline engine exhaust:

...Swiss researchers have concluded that some GDI engines emit just as many soot particles as unfiltered diesel cars did in the past...

...The results were sobering: every tested gasoline car emitted ten to 100 times more fine soot particles than the diesel Peugeot. Under the microscope, the particles from the gasoline engines were similar in size to the soot particles that had given diesel a bad name: primary particles measuring ten to 20 nanometers in size, which congregate into particle agglomerates measuring 80 to 100 nanometers before leaving the exhaust....

...Once again, the diesel vehicle with particle filter fared much better: in the test, the Peugeot emitted only 45 nanograms of carcinogenic substances – 6 times less than the best one of the analyzed gasoline cars....

https://www.empa.ch/web/s604/soot-particles-from-gdi

...The average PN emitted during 180 seconds by GDI and PFI vehicles were 3.09E+13 and 2.12E+13 particles respectively. Comparing to 2017 Euro 6 New European Driving Cycle (NEDC) limit on cumulative particles emitted over the entire test cycle, most PFI and GDI vehicles exceeded this limit in 6-12 seconds after a cold-cold start. In addition, EPA Tier 3 particle mass requirements are exceeded for tested GDI vehicles due to their characteristically high concentration of accumulation mode particles. In comparison, diesel vehicles with DPFs were the cleanest, with particle concentrations close to background levels....

...The average total PN emissions from these two Diesel vehicles was 6E+11 particles, nearly 20 times lower than the PFI and GDI vehicles (1E+13 particles)....

...PN was found to exceed the total PN limit for Euro 6 test standards (w/ NEDC drive cycle) for all the tested vehicles except for one PFI and the two Diesel w/DPF vehicles. Most GDI and PFI vehicles emitted E+13 particles, with the lowest PFI at 2.2E+12 and the highest GDI at 1.2E+14. In comparison, Diesel w/DPF vehicles emitted only 6E+11 particles....

Source: Badshah, H., Kittelson, D., and Northrop, W., "Particle Emissions from Light-Duty Vehicles during Cold-Cold Start," SAE Int. J. Engines 9(3):2016, doi:10.4271/2016-01-0997, http://papers.sae.org/2016-01-0997/ (Abstract)

...Particle concentration from DPF equipped diesel engines were found to be the lowest, while GDI and 8-cylinder PFI engines had the highest particle emissions....

...A PN [particle number] emissions index concept was developed to rank post 2010 model-year vehicles tested relative to a 4-cylinder diesel with DPF, used as the best available technology for low solid particle emissions. GDI engines had the highest PN indices, with up to a factor of 8000 higher for particles larger than 25 nm (Dp > 25 nm) and up to 900 times higher for particles smaller than 25 nm (DP < 25 nm)....

Source: Badshah, H. and Khalek, I., "Solid Particle Emissions from Vehicle Exhaust during Engine Start-Up," SAE Int. J. Engines 8(4):2015, doi:10.4271/2015-01-1077, http://papers.sae.org/2015-01-1077/ (Abstract)

 

[Bill Lins]

I find it odd that cerium oxide is being used as a fuel additive- it is an ABRASIVE! We use it to polish glass- I damn sure don't want it going through my P-pump!

 

[Wayne M.]

Betcha certain folks in certain mountains knew this and had to vilify the TDI some other way to truly kill light duty Diesel in the US.

Thank you for some fantastic reading!

 

[DavidC]

I just caught this at 1680 posts.

Health nuts are going to feel stupid someday, lying in hospitals, dying of nothing.

Dave

 

[Bill Lins]

I just caught this at 1680 posts.

Health nuts are going to feel stupid someday, lying in hospitals, dying of nothing.

Dave

:-laf:-laf:-laf:-laf