alot of space in the back when you fold the seats down, more than our fords or dodges [all one ton ext cabs} the all trans in tow haul mode, changes the entire complexion of this truck as far as downshiifting etc. again ive always been a man trans guy so this and our ps 550 autos are new and strange to me. but i can tell you guys that this is the best auto truck i've driven out of the big three, so far, and keep that in mind whatever i say about this truck is so far... fast, responsive, very comfortable, the best of all trucks. but past experience has shown me that these gms kind of fall apart from the inside out, if that makes any sense. we have two 2000 3500 gassers still waiting for the power window assemblys, sitting in our shop now. it doesnt sound like much, but try driving 500 miles home, thru rain with your window down. anyway, the duramax, isnt as quiet as everyone says, from the outside, you know that its a diesel. but roll the windows up and turn on the ac, and there is no engine noise, and i mean none. peformance wise, our durmax all has a 373 rear end, our ctd's have a 410, our powerstrokes, being 550's have a ratio that really cant compare to our "faster" trucks. but so far ilike this truck. i really think that this setup will be popular with casual pullers, my wife loved it. but deep down inside i think i know where we'll spend our money in the future, next order will be for a 2003 3500 four door dodge, let the games begin. by the way, i really like this chevy. Oo.
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more on our duramax... empty
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All of that is good to know I was thinking about a 03 Dodge but have pretty much changed my mind to the Chevy I love my Dodge and don't plan on geting rid of it any time soon but I have to replace my F-350 and the Chevy seems to be the logical decision have you thought about puting a Edge Juice on yet I've heard they kick A$$. I have a friend who has one and is very happy with it haven't heard of to many people that have been disapointed I think they are great trucks IMO
let's give this motor time to break-in before you start throwing more hp and torque to it. i dont care what anyone says, any diesel has to have time to, we use to call it , setlle-in. jmho anyway, like ive said before the isuzu is a good reliable diesel engine used in many ag and marine applications, but this one is a new animal as far as gm is concerned, so dont push it yet
Packman,the GM/Isuzu Duaramax is by no means new,my buddies has 44K on it,it will be 2 yrs old this november,Mules have been out in C/K chassis for for over 3 yrs,dont push it,?Whats that supposed to mean,if the power edge juice pushed this engine, it would come with a a waiver to be signed(which im pretty sure it doesnt). Im a Dodge lover,but give the Gm credit when due,the duramax has ben a great motor so far,look at how much market share Gm has gained since its introduction,I have 2 relatives with them now,My 00 Ram with dd3's,and DTT transmission barely beats them with my Edge comp off,they run good stock.
good news
I think it is great that the Duramax is working out - it will raise the bar for DC and Ford both. On the other hand, lets wait and see how many make 500,000 miles w/out major problems. I certainly wouldn't brag about any diesel until 250,000 miles, or 5000 hours, minimum. Ray
I think it is great that the Duramax is working out - it will raise the bar for DC and Ford both. On the other hand, lets wait and see how many make 500,000 miles w/out major problems. I certainly wouldn't brag about any diesel until 250,000 miles, or 5000 hours, minimum. Ray
There's more to an engine than just how long it lasts.....
I've worked on quite a few 7. 3L IDI non-turbo (and Power Strokes) Intl. diesels in Ford Econolines (Ambulances)..... quite a few of them had well over 225,000 miles and way more than 9,000 hours. The oldest one has over 10,000 hours on it... ...
When I first started working at that place... one of 'em came in with a "... Weird noise from the engine... "... . it only had 2 quarts of oil in it... . they hold 11 total... . it ran for another 3 years... . noisy (bearings... ) but it ran.
Would I own one? NO!
They run okay... and do their job, but that's about it. I want something than I can expect to not only last, but also perform way above and beyond any expectations... . which my Cummins does and then some.....
I've driven the D-Max/Allison... it runs okay... nothing amazing, though. GM still has many bugs to work out... . but the engine does what is advertised... ... I'll wait for the long haul to see if it holds up... . The fact that it is next to impossible to *really* BOMB it (or the Allison... ) is disappointing... .
Matt
I've worked on quite a few 7. 3L IDI non-turbo (and Power Strokes) Intl. diesels in Ford Econolines (Ambulances)..... quite a few of them had well over 225,000 miles and way more than 9,000 hours. The oldest one has over 10,000 hours on it... ...
When I first started working at that place... one of 'em came in with a "... Weird noise from the engine... "... . it only had 2 quarts of oil in it... . they hold 11 total... . it ran for another 3 years... . noisy (bearings... ) but it ran.
Would I own one? NO!
They run okay... and do their job, but that's about it. I want something than I can expect to not only last, but also perform way above and beyond any expectations... . which my Cummins does and then some.....
I've driven the D-Max/Allison... it runs okay... nothing amazing, though. GM still has many bugs to work out... . but the engine does what is advertised... ... I'll wait for the long haul to see if it holds up... . The fact that it is next to impossible to *really* BOMB it (or the Allison... ) is disappointing... .
Matt
two years and 40000 miles doesnt prove an engine or drivetrain to us. we put that kind of mileage on all of our rigs in a year. we have been pleasantly surprised by the longevity of our old 96 and 97 v- 10 dodges, but not to happy with our vortecs. who would have thought that a newly designed gasser would outlast and perform the old tried and true v-8? in 17 years, we,ve never had any kind of motor failure in any of our gas and diesel tow trucks, like ive said before. now the real test is in the transmission, drivetrain, and all the little things that make for a real "worktruck" as far as going nuts on bombing these duramaxes, i say let er rip, and keep us informed. 
Well....
I've talked to a few DMax owners.
Ya wanna know why GM is selling so many?
It's quiet. I know, I know, realy diesels aren't quiet, and I wouldn't want my Cummins to be quiet. BUT, that fact is that many, many average consumers are sold on the quietness of the Dmax.
Last weekend, I pulled our fiver out to the campsite, and a DMax pulled in after towing with his Dmax for the first time.
The very first thing he does - before even unhitching- he looks under the hood, because "something must have broke". Truck runs so strong empty, but pulling his trailer for the first time it seemed "too slow"... .
Frankly, I hope GM sells thousands of DMax's - gives me more vehicles to PASS on the hills!!!
Shawn
I've talked to a few DMax owners.
Ya wanna know why GM is selling so many?
It's quiet. I know, I know, realy diesels aren't quiet, and I wouldn't want my Cummins to be quiet. BUT, that fact is that many, many average consumers are sold on the quietness of the Dmax.
Last weekend, I pulled our fiver out to the campsite, and a DMax pulled in after towing with his Dmax for the first time.
The very first thing he does - before even unhitching- he looks under the hood, because "something must have broke". Truck runs so strong empty, but pulling his trailer for the first time it seemed "too slow"... .
Frankly, I hope GM sells thousands of DMax's - gives me more vehicles to PASS on the hills!!!
Shawn
His first tow probably wont be the best I remember when the 24 valves came out I thought the same thing in stock form they run good empty but W/ a trailer my PSD would out pull them all day. Laphed at them untel the bombing begain from about Y2K on I started to want one and ate my words I think everybody might be up against the samething with the D-max. Not that everybody will want one but they might start to respect them alittle more
My neighbor across the street said the same thing when he came back from NC after towing home his new 5er..... he said the thing would fall flat on its face on the hills... .
"WTF!... . Man this thing sure felt strong unloaded!"
Matt
"WTF!... . Man this thing sure felt strong unloaded!"
Matt
Re: Well....
Say what you will, but I wish mine were quiet. I like the noise from the straight exhaust pipe but can't stand the clatter from under the hood that interupts conversations with my family during trips.
Say what you will, but I wish mine were quiet. I like the noise from the straight exhaust pipe but can't stand the clatter from under the hood that interupts conversations with my family during trips.
Heck, at times I love not being able to hear the person sitting next to me... ... they just hold their conversation until we stop somewhere.
I can turn the radio off and listen to the sweet sounds of my 6BT... live and in concert..... no stereo, AC-3, Pro-Logic or other crafty signal processing could ever compare...
Matt
I can turn the radio off and listen to the sweet sounds of my 6BT... live and in concert..... no stereo, AC-3, Pro-Logic or other crafty signal processing could ever compare...
Matt
Was posted above concerning the Duramax with a camper:
"The very first thing he does - before even unhitching- he looks under the hood, because "something must have broke". Truck runs so strong empty, but pulling his trailer for the first time it seemed "too slow"... . "
And THERE is the #1 reason Ford and GM will sell lotsa V8 diesels - the FAILURE of prospective buyers to recognize the difference in operating characteristics of V8's and inline 6's...
These V8 buyers often buy their "world beaters" based upon a test drive when EMPTY - and often get a surprise when they put a load behind it and aim it up a long steep grade.
If all I wanted was something "snappy" when unloaded, from stoplite to stoplite - any decent V8 will usually get the job done impressively - but then we sure don't NEED a powerful diesel just to impress other drivers at the stoplites around town, do we?
*I* would FAR rather "impress" them as I pass their similarly loaded rigs up a nice long, steep grade - now THERE'S *real* satisfaction - and you WON'T normally perceive the real picture based entirely upon a test drive with an EMPTY truck on city streets!
Select a truck based upon a specific PURPOSE and need - and THEN buy what has proven it gets the job done, mile after mile, year after year!
"The very first thing he does - before even unhitching- he looks under the hood, because "something must have broke". Truck runs so strong empty, but pulling his trailer for the first time it seemed "too slow"... . "
And THERE is the #1 reason Ford and GM will sell lotsa V8 diesels - the FAILURE of prospective buyers to recognize the difference in operating characteristics of V8's and inline 6's...
These V8 buyers often buy their "world beaters" based upon a test drive when EMPTY - and often get a surprise when they put a load behind it and aim it up a long steep grade.
If all I wanted was something "snappy" when unloaded, from stoplite to stoplite - any decent V8 will usually get the job done impressively - but then we sure don't NEED a powerful diesel just to impress other drivers at the stoplites around town, do we?
*I* would FAR rather "impress" them as I pass their similarly loaded rigs up a nice long, steep grade - now THERE'S *real* satisfaction - and you WON'T normally perceive the real picture based entirely upon a test drive with an EMPTY truck on city streets!
Select a truck based upon a specific PURPOSE and need - and THEN buy what has proven it gets the job done, mile after mile, year after year!
On
Right on the money Gary. I feel the same way about a V-8 diesel. I have talked to a lot of Duramax diesel owners and they are saying break-in on them is very tedious and not needed. Many owners are finding out that they pull better and better the more they work them. They are saying that the GM break-in routine is bull. The ones that are following the recomended break-in are experiencing oil usage and low power.
I don't think much of all the electronics on diesels nowadays and tend to like my old 95 more and more for the simplicity. You have to go over every once in awhile to the dieselpage and listen to some of the fixes they come up with. I mean just a little too much electronics. The truth is, most of the public are diesel iliterate. They think in gas terms, so when a V-8 is offered they think, "it has to be the best". If you want to run in traffic all day back in forth to the grocery store, I would take the V-8 diesel. If you want to pull a load on the highway day after day, I will take the I-6... .....
Right on the money Gary. I feel the same way about a V-8 diesel. I have talked to a lot of Duramax diesel owners and they are saying break-in on them is very tedious and not needed. Many owners are finding out that they pull better and better the more they work them. They are saying that the GM break-in routine is bull. The ones that are following the recomended break-in are experiencing oil usage and low power.
I don't think much of all the electronics on diesels nowadays and tend to like my old 95 more and more for the simplicity. You have to go over every once in awhile to the dieselpage and listen to some of the fixes they come up with. I mean just a little too much electronics. The truth is, most of the public are diesel iliterate. They think in gas terms, so when a V-8 is offered they think, "it has to be the best". If you want to run in traffic all day back in forth to the grocery store, I would take the V-8 diesel. If you want to pull a load on the highway day after day, I will take the I-6... .....
WHY DO YOU BOMB ??????
I Know I'm headed for trouble but... ... . What TA hell... . If your trucks PULL so strong towing why do you waste money on BOMBING... ... . Why do you need enhancements? Case and point it is said here on this thread who needs a stop light to stop light empty runner??????? I've begun the BOMBING process with my D-MAX... ... From what I've seen with the edge "JUICE" you will not be out running me on the hills... ... . Empty or Dragging a load... ... You are comparing an out off the box D-MAX to a Hopped up Cummins in most cases. Get an equally or partially equipped D-max and compare... ..... Apples to oranges... ... Am I missing something?
MAC
I Know I'm headed for trouble but... ... . What TA hell... . If your trucks PULL so strong towing why do you waste money on BOMBING... ... . Why do you need enhancements? Case and point it is said here on this thread who needs a stop light to stop light empty runner??????? I've begun the BOMBING process with my D-MAX... ... From what I've seen with the edge "JUICE" you will not be out running me on the hills... ... . Empty or Dragging a load... ... You are comparing an out off the box D-MAX to a Hopped up Cummins in most cases. Get an equally or partially equipped D-max and compare... ..... Apples to oranges... ... Am I missing something?
MAC
Mac - FIRST you ask:
"What TA hell... . If your trucks PULL so strong towing why do you waste money on BOMBING"
Then you state:
"From what I've seen with the edge "JUICE" you will not be out running me on the hills"
SOOoo - answer your OWN question - if YOUR DM is so HOT right from the factory, WHY did YOU feel the want or NEED to bomb it?
Needed something "extra" to keep up with the Fords and Dodges?
Little double standard, or "circumstantial ethics" involved - it's OK and natural for the Ford or GM guys to add aftermarket power enhancers - but UNFAIR if we Dodge/Cummins guys do it?
Still gotta LOVE a relatively SMALL DISPLACEMENT, 6 cylinder engine that gives the big V8's fits and inferiority complexes!
For the record, My old '91 Dodge, with the stuff listed below does a pretty dern good job keeping up with ANY of the newer stuff pulling a load in the hills - and if I can do that with a truck over 10 years old, and nearly 120,000 miles, I don't figure I need feel ashamed of the truck, OR the mods I have made - sure a LOT cheaper than laying out nearly 40 grand for a NEW rig to do the same job - and MINE only cost $18,000 - out the door!
I wonder if the same will be claimed by many DM's after 10 years and a couple hundred thousand miles?
Are you "missing something?" - YEAH - the FACT that we can buy OUR new trucks, BOMB them, and STILL have paid LESS for a truck that will LAST longer and PULL HARDER than anything else on the market and STILL have money left over!
"What TA hell... . If your trucks PULL so strong towing why do you waste money on BOMBING"
Then you state:
"From what I've seen with the edge "JUICE" you will not be out running me on the hills"
SOOoo - answer your OWN question - if YOUR DM is so HOT right from the factory, WHY did YOU feel the want or NEED to bomb it?
Needed something "extra" to keep up with the Fords and Dodges?
Little double standard, or "circumstantial ethics" involved - it's OK and natural for the Ford or GM guys to add aftermarket power enhancers - but UNFAIR if we Dodge/Cummins guys do it?
Still gotta LOVE a relatively SMALL DISPLACEMENT, 6 cylinder engine that gives the big V8's fits and inferiority complexes!
For the record, My old '91 Dodge, with the stuff listed below does a pretty dern good job keeping up with ANY of the newer stuff pulling a load in the hills - and if I can do that with a truck over 10 years old, and nearly 120,000 miles, I don't figure I need feel ashamed of the truck, OR the mods I have made - sure a LOT cheaper than laying out nearly 40 grand for a NEW rig to do the same job - and MINE only cost $18,000 - out the door!
I wonder if the same will be claimed by many DM's after 10 years and a couple hundred thousand miles?
Are you "missing something?" - YEAH - the FACT that we can buy OUR new trucks, BOMB them, and STILL have paid LESS for a truck that will LAST longer and PULL HARDER than anything else on the market and STILL have money left over!
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OK, I looked on the Edge website and got their dyno numbers.
CUMMINS w/COMP-320 hp 775 ft. lb
Duramax w/Juice-320 hp 675 ft. lb
Apples to apples.
If everything was the same it would'nt be any fun.
Brian
CUMMINS w/COMP-320 hp 775 ft. lb
Duramax w/Juice-320 hp 675 ft. lb
Apples to apples.
If everything was the same it would'nt be any fun.
Brian
Sure I will . ? Who wouldn't want max. performance... ... . But to say any truck is more superior after it's been bombed compared to stock is ridicules. NO? Once you feel the difference no comparison. The thread is about a stock D-max. Right? So lets get some bone stock Sig. up here responding to yup more D- max. hype... . Well, if he had an enhancement would the results be the same?. . If the Guy under the hood with the camper was looking at the Edge box. He would be saying. WOW, all that power out of that little black box..... Ran those hills so quick with an 8 banger. Not it ran so good empty, what happened..... Just like you running propane or others with EZ or what ever,,,,,,,,Not trying to flame but really look at it... ..... I ran into a stock D-max with my Juice walked ALL OVER HIM... ..... MAC
I got to ask would you keep up with out it????? I paid under $38k ($37,787) for my LOADED D-MAX leather and all, 4x4 ext cab 3500 dually Allison... . See my PICS. How much for the D/C equally equipped today?
HillCountryKid,
Remember Edge worked within the Pyrometers of the Allison (250 ft #'s RWTQ safe upgrade) no necessary transmission upgrade needed... . I've run the sh** out of it . Good mileage too... . Can you do the same day in and day out? I got room for more compared to your #'s... ... . Thanks... ... .
I got to ask would you keep up with out it????? I paid under $38k ($37,787) for my LOADED D-MAX leather and all, 4x4 ext cab 3500 dually Allison... . See my PICS. How much for the D/C equally equipped today?
HillCountryKid,
Remember Edge worked within the Pyrometers of the Allison (250 ft #'s RWTQ safe upgrade) no necessary transmission upgrade needed... . I've run the sh** out of it . Good mileage too... . Can you do the same day in and day out? I got room for more compared to your #'s... ... . Thanks... ... .
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I might get it for this to but you go Mac your not afraid to tell it how it is I agree totaly. We have a disagrement between the 12v and the 24v guys so we dissagree with each other so it's not just the D-Max. Allot of people with diffrent oppinions but don't get the wrong idea about us.
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I run the dog **** out of mine with 650 ft. lb. of torque every day. That's more than their dyno chart says. And my inj. pump wire is'nt hooked up yet.
Brian
Brian
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