More on the CDL & max GVW issue

[rickhans]

Now I understand better about the RAM's GVW rating. I am probably telling everyone what they already know, but I will repeat what Texas DPS just told me anyway.
1. As others have stated, in Texas, I can uprate the GVW of my Ram on my license plate registration. He said the 8800 rating on the RAM is strictly a DODGE issue, and may affect warranty if overloading it damages the truck.

If the tongue weight causes my GVW to exceed 8800, but is less than the rear axle and tire ratings, then I would need to up my GVW rating on my license registration to prevent an overload ticket.

2. Increasing the GVW does not allow me to exceed the rear axle load rating on the RAM.
3. Increasing the GVW does not affect the CDL requirements. Only the factory rating of 8800 GVW plus the registed GVW of the trailer being towed is used to determine CDL requirement (assuming personal use and not for hire). If total > 26000, CDL is required.
4. If my trailer exceeds 10k GVW, and I pull it across state lines, I am subject to equipment inspections as per US DOT rules, but still does NOT affect CDL requirements.

This I still don't understand. I have seen reference to it but do not have a good explanation, not even from TExas DPS. Does this mean I have to stop at scales even if not commercial? Does this mean I have to be equipped with safty equipment that is required for commercial operation? Does anyone have more detail on this?

------------------
98. 5 24V QC 4x4 SB 3:54 5sp

 

[Alan Reagan]

You should not have to stop at scales after crossing the state lines. You are subject to being stopped by the DOT and they can weigh you and check the type of fuel to make sure you are not using the red stuff. The only safety equipment is fire extinguisher and reflectors. I carry a fire extinguisher anyway but have never purchased the triangle reflectors. Since you are pulling an RV don't bother to get on the scales. The only place I know the has a sign that says all trucks, pickups, semis and trailers is going into Florida. It's the agriculture inspection. I still go by them and they've never bothered me.

------------------
2001 HO 6 spd 2500, 4. 10 LSD, Towing Package, Electric Brakes, SPA EGT/Boost Gauges, Fog Lights, Real Backup Lights, Molded Running Boards

 

[David Phipps/Mike Hurd]

Rick, Unless your commericial and/or for hire you never stop at scales reguardless of your weight. Been hotshoting for well over 1 million miles. Theres been alot of talk bout cdl's and DOT. Like i said above. Me on the other hand have to cross every scale loaded or empty. As I have appr. plates cab card, running IFTA fuel stickers, etc, etc, etc. Only saftey would be fire ext and saftey triangles. Mike

------------------
http://hometown. aol.com/hotshothauler/myhomepage/business.html 2000, CTD 3500, Air brakes on truck & trailer. 193,000 miles todate. DOT custom built sleeper unit. pulling a 40' G/N flatbed
2000 FL-70 Pulling a 48' low boy. 200,000 miles
Just bought another 92 D-350 215 P-Pump motor and NV 4500 180,000 miles 24 lbs boost all stock For now

 

[RobG]

Here's a related question. Rick mentioned about never being able to exceed the rear axle rating.

I haven't weighed my new truck yet, but on my '96, with my camper loaded and the car on the flatbed trailer behind it, I was 500 lbs over my rear axle rating. I don't see why I wouldn't be in the same position with the new truck.

Something I've considered doing is locating the Dana 125 axle out of a wrecked Ford F450 or F550 (I forget if the 450 has a 125 or just the regular 80), and adapting it to my truck. If I did this, naturally it would be capable of handling a lot more than the 7500# rating of my 'hybrid' POS 80.

The question is this: What, if anything, could be done to get the truck's rear axle rating re-certified? I wouldn't necessarily be trying to up it's GVWR or GCWR, just the rear axle rating.

Any ideas?

Rob


------------------
2001. 5 RAM 3500 QC 4x4 ETH/DEE Silver/Agate 4. 10 USGear OD, Rickson 19. 5 Wheels, Edge EZ, SPA Guages, Psychotty, Firestone Airbags, Hellwig Rear Swaybar, Torklift Superhitch & Camper Tiedowns, Mag-Hytec Diff Cover, DD 4" Exhaust, US Gear Exhaust Brake, etc.

 

[JJW_ND]

For any of you driving through ND... or operating in ND we have some very disapointing state laws when it comes to CDL requirements. ND defines GVWR of the truck (or trailer) as the Manufactures wieght rating OR the Registered weight which ever is higher. Federal DOT only requires Manufactures weight rating. When it comes to Registered weight of a truck, state law requires the MSO shipping weight of the truck times 2 and rounded up to the nearest 1K pounds. Bottom line is a 2001 Ram 2500 QuadCab Cummins is registered for 14,0000. Only in ND, you can only hook on to a trailer with a GVWR of 12,000 (excluding RVs of course) anything higher requires CDL. Kinda sucks!

jjw
ND

 

[rickhans]

JJW-ND
That law should only affect ND residents. All states must honor the drivers license issued from another state. Texas and the DOT don't require CDL until greater than 26,000 pounds regardless of what you are pulling.

 

[David Phipps/Mike Hurd]

Yep, ND tried that carp on me 5 yrs ago. I took it to court. Judge dismissed the ticket and fine. I was private on vacation coming back from Billings, Mt. with a 40 ft G/N with 14,000lbs on it. Blew by the scale house. SD DOT looked hard but did nothing. ND pulled me over and put me in cuffs for 3/4 of an hour. Posted bond they released my load and truck and I went to court 2 months later. Judge dismissed it because I was based out of Fla at the time. settled out of court a few yrs later. DOT in ND Can bite my... #ad


------------------
http://hometown. aol.com/hotshothauler/myhomepage/business.html 2000, CTD 3500, Air brakes on truck & trailer. 202,000 miles todate. DOT custom built sleeper unit. pulling a 40' G/N flatbed
2000 FL-70 Pulling a 48' low boy. 211,000 miles
Just bought another 92 D-350 215 P-Pump motor and NV 4500 180,000 miles 24 lbs boost all stock For now

[This message has been edited by David Phipps/Mike Hurd (edited 04-03-2001). ]

 

[Alan Reagan]

Rick, You are right on honoring the license. That's what the Federal DOT says. It's a shame that they treat a person on vacation like he's a common criminal. Them DOT boys in ND need to find a hobby.

 

[QRTRHRS]

Had not heard this before.

Today was the first day of PA's state farm show. I got to talking to a trooper who had once been a trucker himself. We got into the CDL thing for instate PA residents. He said you do not need the CDL under 26k combination. He did say that when you go over that 10k "window" on the trailer that you must register the trailer in combination with the truck. Having sold my 14k and being in the market for another, we used that number. My truck is registered at 11k. With the trailer at 14k but not in combination, I could potentially be 3k over if not registered combination.



I had not heard it put this way before. Off topic but we also touched on farm registrations. I have a "farm exemption" sticker on my beastly dump truck. Fifty bucks for two years, max 50 miles daylight only but need to meet DOT specs. It has air brakes which would normally mean CDL but the farm sticker exempts it. He said they vigorously inforce what you do if not farm related. I could haul corn all day but one load of stone for the neighbor would be an offense.



Now I have to see what that combination is gonna cost.

 

[rickhans]

What does that mean "registering the trailer in combination with the truck"? I have never heard of such a thing here. You can register the truck for a higher GVW than what is on the door tag I have been told to keep it legal if the tongue weight would push me over the 8800 GVW, but trailers are registered here as a separate vehicle rated only at the maximum load it is going to carry. Texas only looks at the total combined weight as it relates to the commercial drivers license, and the axle loads and limits to see if the trailer or truck is over weight. But since they don't require stopping at a weigh station, it would be rare to get checked.

 

[sewman]

I'm from Ohio & in the Industrial Sewing Machine business & have a couple of trailers. A couple on months ago I was going up & down the hills on the interstae in NY well I had the cruise off trying to keep the boost below 14lbs going up then speed up going down. I got pulled over going down. He said 84 in a 55 well I figured he's right but then he asked:what am I doing I told him

(my mistake) that I'm going to Mass & pickup some machines

he goes & looks at my trailer,then the sticker on my doorjamb comes back about a half hour later asks for my medical card?DOT#

&Logbook I tell I don't have any of it?He asks how long have I been driving today I tell him. Then he tells me that since I'm hauling for commerce&my gross combined weight is over 10,500lbs that I need a logbook,Med Card & Dot#but,he says that since I didn't know about it all he'd do is make me pull up about 1/2 a mlie to a reststop & stay there for 8hrs(since no logbook & he didn't know how long I was driving)& he would also give me a speeding ticket that I have to pay the truckers rate for $360. 00 & the nice Dot man said I was lucky because if I was going one more mile an hour he'd take me away in handcuffs.

I do have lettering on the side of my trailer that's coming off before I go out of state again. And I tell them next time that I'm just going to but some furniture or something.

Oh,the DOT guy told when we were in the reststop that he is getting off duty in 1/2 hr & heading west & not looking back & that I could do what I wanted,but I'm supposed to wait for 8hrs in the reststop. I left when I seen his tailights heading west. He also mentioned that each of the 3 infractions were a $121. 00 fine so I could of had to pay double but he was giving me a break?????

 

[Mschevey]

I have been looking into this very hard in the last few weeks. According to PennDOT any trailer registered over 10,001 lbs. is listed federally as a commercial vehicle not requiring a CDL unless the GCVWR is over 26,001. BUT I as the driver am required to have a Fed. medical card, keep logs while connected to the trailer, and have a Fed. DOT operating number. Stopping at scales is state specific. ( My responsibility to find out before passing through, ignorance is not a excuse if required. Most states do not require stopping but have the right to stop you and check. )



NOTE: there is a specific exclusion in the Federal requirements for mobile homes, and RV's.



My combination is a 2500 Ram. Registered from axle ratings NOT the DC GVW. With a 14,000 lb 24' flatbed connected via a kinping (5th wheel).



The above responses are the consensus of asking MANY people in many different positions. DOT officers, state police, PennDOT offices in Harrisburg, local police, local truck driving schools, and others. In many cases I have been given completely contradictory information even from different people within the same organization. I have purchased copies if the federal rules and regulations as well as the federal motor vehicle safety administration regulations. as time permits I am wading my way through this Highliting and copying parts that apply to me. This way when stopped I will have all the applicable parts available and it will be the officers problem to show me in writing where

he got his information.



(Sorry for the long post and the bad spelling. I am not using my computer to type this. )



Mike

 

[Turboman]

DOT laws!!!

Most of you guys have no idea of the government BS invovled in this. I have two 18 wheelers that I got apportioned to run in the 5 state area. It took me almost three month of filings and phone calls and more filings to get it all done. Every state is different, and every person you ask has a different answer, and then every year they all change the rules again. It is a classic example of Big Bro screwing it all up, And these people are going to make our air system safer

Trust me, you guys pulling a big RV, for the most part you don't have to worry. Have some common sense when you get ready to haul 40 tons with your Ram. If things don't look right to the DOT guys you might have some trouble. On the other hand just look like your a farmer and you can get away with anything

 

[Doc Tinker]

How come this is all so confusing? Now that the Feds mandate most of the CDL laws, why can't it be common throughtout the states? Oh... I know... GOVERNMENT! They sure know how to screw up everything! It was probably better before CDL.



Doc

 

[QRTRHRS]

Originally posted by Mschevey

My combination is a 2500 Ram. Registered from axle ratings NOT the DC GVW. With a 14,000 lb 24' flatbed connected via a kinping (5th wheel).

Mike, I did not get into the medical card or logbooks with the trooper. Are you going out of state? How are you registered then? As a combination? And what are you paying for registration fees? Thanks.

 

[Mschevey]

Because the trailer is over 10,000# PA allows you to get a permanent registration in it. BUT they require Bi-annual inspections (evey six months).

Yes, I do go out of state. I live very close to the border with Ohio. As far a PA registration each part (truck and trailer) are registered seperatly. But in filling out the registration for the Fed. operating number they are listed together. While filling out the application I called and asked them how I should list it. I needed to list the trialer as a flatbed, and (get this) the RAM as the TRACTOR used to pull it. I am listed as a Private not-for-hire, owner operator.



One thing I want to tell everbody. The thing abut putting not-for -hire on your trailers and then feeling that you can do what you want is NOT the case. Officially the only thing that gets you out of is having to carry load libility insurance. Un-officially they may cut you some slack but they don't have to. A lot of these federal rules changed in 1995 (plus or minus a year).



Mike

 

[QRTRHRS]

Mike, Thanks for the reply. I can see now, I should have kept that troopers ear for more questions. Maybe I will just get a 12k trailer and keep it at 10k but with some overhead structurally. Use my buddy with the drop deck for the heavier stuff.

 

[Mschevey]

If you keep the registered weight under 10,000 lbs and keep from going over it, that will save you a lot of discussions with enforcement officials. If not then better to register it where you need it. When you get stopped, if there are questions on the applicability of specific rules and things you are often told to look into it and not fined, etc. But if they put you on scales, and you are over the registered weight, here is no way to argue that one.



Mike

 

[rickhans]

Is there anybody reading this from Texas DPS that can shed more light on this? I researched this extensively before purchasing my 16k GVW flat bed gooseneck to tow equipment to my farm in Arkansas and back, and occassionaly around Dallas. I still can't find any regulations in Texas like the ones mentioned in PA. I can't find anything about having to have a medical just because my trailer exceeds 10k nor having to "permanantly register" nor have it inspected nor special insurance.



My truck liability covers me when towing the trailer, and they know it is a 16k GVW. It is registered as 16k but the state did not require anything else. As I have mentioned on other threads about this subject, my gross combined on the scales was around 25,500. I could get precise but don't want to go dig out the scale receipts right now. Yes I was about 700# over gross, but I can shave that down. I had a lot of tools in the bed and in my tool box and spare diesel fuel for the lift. However, I was not over the rated axle weight, only the registered 8800 GVW.

 

[sewman]

B'Gate,

The way I see it is when you tow in your home state you have to go by state rules,when you tow out of state them\n you go by DOT(FED) rules they use combined weights,of truck & trailer,when you go over 10,500lb(GROSS COMBINED)you need med card,DOT#& logbook IF you are hauling for commerce(making money)in any way,when you get stopped like I did they will enlighten you & your wallet!!

Bob