Most cost Effective/Safest 5th wheel. to Gooseneck

[bcbender]

Some pin boxes have multiple heights, so you can pick which set of holes to use, same for the header bar on some fer hitches, My 16k Hijacker had 3 settings.

 

[Jim W]

I agree my TrailAir king pin box has four holes for adjustment along with my Demco Auto glide which has three holes so, this gives you plenty of adjustment. I just make sure when I first hooked up to my truck the new 5er had the correct bed clearance and road level. Otherwise no nose high on the fiver. I did have to lower the Demco Auto glide one set of mounting holes and the TrailAir pin box was bolted so, the bottom front hole was exposed.

 

[WBraico]

Yes, that's something I need to look at. If memory serves me right my pin box may have another set of holes I can drop down to giving me maybe 1or 2". As far as the hitch there might be some adjustment there to, it's just 300 miles away in storage with the 5er lol. But I'll probably still be putting some airbags to help out just a little without putting to much strain on the frame.

 

[Benito]

I just got a new 5th wheel myself. I wanted to avoid the 5th wheel hitch because of all the room it takes and the weight. The Reese Goosebox was the way I was going until I saw the Gen-Y 5th to Goose conversion. It is similar to the Reese in that it replaces the pin box on the trailer and all you need in the bed is the goose ball but it uses torsion bushings instead of airbags. I have only towed about 800 miles with it but so far I love it. Ride is great easy to hitch up and unhitch, (if you get the Executive version, the regular one requires you to get in the bed to put the pin in once connected) and no shocks or airbags to worry about.

 

[SSage]

I just got a new 5th wheel myself. I wanted to avoid the 5th wheel hitch because of all the room it takes and the weight. The Reese Goosebox was the way I was going until I saw the Gen-Y 5th to Goose conversion. It is similar to the Reese in that it replaces the pin box on the trailer and all you need in the bed is the goose ball but it uses torsion bushings instead of airbags. I have only towed about 800 miles with it but so far I love it. Ride is great easy to hitch up and unhitch, (if you get the Executive version, the regular one requires you to get in the bed to put the pin in once connected) and no shocks or airbags to worry about.

Very interesting, I haven't seen that type before. I know the GN set up is the way to go though, I converted to GN many years ago. The B&W Companion hitch is long gone, I don't miss it. Taking it in and out was a pain. With the 50 gallon fuel tank and the tool box chest I had no bed space left with the companion hitch in there. Getting rid of the 5th wheel hitch made a huge difference on the road, its so nice having some bed room for whatever when you are not towing!

 

[bcbender]

Lippert components has only accepted the Goosebox by Reese for their frame applications, all other adaptors may void the frame warranty should you ever have a claim it could be problematic. Although I am sure when it comes to LCI, anything warranty related is a hassle...

 

[Benito]

Lippert components has only accepted the Goosebox by Reese for their frame applications, all other adaptors may void the frame warranty should you ever have a claim it could be problematic. Although I am sure when it comes to LCI, anything warranty related is a hassle...

I know the frame warranty can b an issue but ultimately they are one 1 year warranties and they do all they can to get out of covering things anyway so I figured it is best to just get something that is comfortable for me. The Gen-Y is not what I would call an adapter, it replaced the entire
Pinbox so I think the stress to the chassis would be similar to the standard pinbox. Either way, it was a chance I was willing to take for the benefit.

 

[SnoKing]

I know the frame warranty can b an issue but ultimately they are one 1 year warranties and they do all they can to get out of covering things anyway so I figured it is best to just get something that is comfortable for me. The Gen-Y is not what I would call an adapter, it replaced the entire
Pinbox so I think the stress to the chassis would be similar to the standard pinbox. Either way, it was a chance I was willing to take for the benefit.

View attachment 127848

A longer lever can create more force. Basic Physics! When you extend the pin box to connect near bed level you created a longer lever.

 

[Benito]

A longer lever can create more force. Basic Physics! When you extend the pin box to connect near bed level you created a longer lever.

Not sure why the sarcasm but “Thanks” for the basic physics lesson. I understand basic physics- the difference with this setup, (and the Reese Goosebox- which is approved), it that the mount to the trailer the lessen the leverage angle. It will be more than the original Pinbox but not to the level of the “old school” extension tube that some people install, (and are still being sold). Again, as I stated on my post, I did my research and made my choice you can keep your sarcasm to yourself, this is a forum to share ideas and experiences not poor attitudes.

 

[Jim W]

Will when I was a team leader in a design team at Cat, one of my comments when I was asked if I thought that the design would work! Was; well, it might work but that is not the way I would design that component. It usually turns out I was right about 95% of the time. Their design would fail in testing at the proving grounds in AZ where the machines where being tested.

I would have said the same thing about this design that you have chosen for your 5er. It may work but than again that is not what I would do if this was my 5er and truck!

Just my humble opinion after 40 years of design experience with heavy equipment!

 

[SnoKing]

Will when I was a team leader in a design team at Cat, one of my comments when I was asked if I thought that the design would work! Was; well, it might work but that is not the way I would design that component. It usually turns out I was right about 95% of the time. Their design would fail in testing at the proving grounds in AZ where the machines where being tested.

I would have said the same thing about this design that you have chosen for your 5er. It may work but than again that is not what I would do if this was my 5er and truck!

Just my humble opinion after 40 years of design experience with heavy equipment!

Yet, including the Goose Box, the force is between the to end points. It does not matter you get there! Straight line or L shaped lever. The overhang on a 5th wheel trailer is NOT at all built as strong as a conventional goose neck trailer. And the structural steel in light weight in a fifth wheel trailer.

 

[DHayden]

I think he stated he understands and has made his choice..

 

[SSage]

My last KZ New Vision toy hauler got the Lippert GN frame option. I can't find my build sheet, but I think it was a $449.00 option back in 2006 or 2007. The Escalade model had that option too. One of the reasons I chose the KZ brand. It pulled okay with the Firestone bags leveling out the ride, not as nice as the air born hitch on the Day Dreamer, but not bad. It was front end heavy with the full 100 gallon water tank in front of the axles. I put about 1400 pounds in the garage, two good size motorcycles and a washer and dryer. I usually carried a Dual Sport or ADV bike and a Sport Touring bike and that made the pin weight bearable.

 

[bcbender]

Yet, including the Goose Box, the force is between the to end points. It does not matter you get there! Straight line or L shaped lever. The overhang on a 5th wheel trailer is NOT at all built as strong as a conventional goose neck trailer. And the structural steel in light weight in a fifth wheel trailer.

I guess we need some one to volunteer to do the calcs (with actual measurements )...... The pivot point (aka Forward load application point) is lower than the stock pinbox, but not as much as a most assume, so not so big additional stress in X and dampened by the shock absorbing element. The "knee function" point on both styles of pinboxes splits the difference between the ball attachment point and the RV frame thus reducing the moment applied by forces in X (not same as a cheap bolt on adapter)... Forces in Y are the same on Reese box (and likely the Gen Y) as the stock pinbox piviot point which is the same.

Who's gonna do the math?

I bought mine, like mine, would do it again... I think the point of this discussion is to give members relevant information and real world experience on a viable option(s) to the Gooseneck hitch for RVs without validating that those "clamp on ($300)" adapters are generically OK....

 

[Benito]

For those interested in the doing the math, here is a schematic with dimensions on the Gen- Y coupler taken from their website. For reference, my trailer has a LCI 1621 frame and it is mounted on the highest mounting position on the chassis. When the trailer is hitched to the truck,(loaded), the coupler pivots up approximately 1.4”, (alters the 25.693” measurement to about 24.2”). Again, my choice was made, I am just sharing in case it helps someone else.

 

[bcbender]

The forward application of force on your GEN Y is the imaginary center point between the linking members so not the 24.2" but likely 8" or so less. Similar to the Goosebox that has a pivot point where the forces are applied in (X), the design is such that the force in X is not at the gooseneck ball but a point much higher and therefore the moment applied to the frame is much lower than the "bolt on" adapters. Look at a fifth wheel hitch and it's the same theory, but just a little lower down. If this same theory did not apply to them, then the fifth wheel moment arm would "also" be the frame connection point so aka the same.

 

[Jim W]

What makes me leery on the Gen Y coupler is the four side plates that connect the coupler to the pin box! To me the entire loading application is being transferred into these plates plus the cap screws that fasten the plates to the two components. You only have four fasteners that is clamping this joint, two to a side so, all of the forces has to be transferred between these four fasteners. Then you have the side plates how thick are theses, 3/8", 1/2" or 3/4" plate? These have to resist all of the forces in play at this joint. I can see a downward component, a fore and aft component. Along with the pin box coupler could also have a twisting/bending force, that could be cause by the turning of the tow vehicle and the trailer on an uneven roadway that could be found in a campground. This design has to withstand all of theses component forces when towing?

I know on my Trailair pin box, there are six - 5/8" Grade 8 fasteners on each side of the joint where the pin box attaches to the frame. So, the entire tow force load is being transferred by 12-5/8" grade 8 fasteners into the frame of the trailer.

 

[bcbender]

What makes me leery on the Gen Y coupler is the four side plates that connect the coupler to the pin box

Agreed, flat bar(s), rotation, etc.. It does have alot going on in that connection.

 

[Benito]

I also was a bit concerned on that but a couple things I looked at. The side plates are somewhere between 5/8” & 3/4”, (apologies, I am not near my trailer at the moment to confirm). The torsion rubber bushing to take some of the shock load so the hardware is not being as much as it is pushed. When it comes to torsional loads it is relatively low because of the ball mount. The trailer can pivot more than it can on a regular 5th wheel coupler, (at least side to side). The trailer would likely hit the bedside before it gets to the end of the pivot travel on the ball. I can tell you that overall the trailer seems to feel smoother with this hitch than it did with the Ram factory hitch, (Curt 20K) and smoother than my last 5th wheel on my previous truck with a super glide.
If anyone is interested or would like I will continue to update on the towing experience, (good or bad), with this hitch. I have a trip planned this summer for about 7 weeks, (as long as our new RV gremlins get worked out- long story), with a total of 3400 miles towing so should have some good data.
All the best to you all.

 

[bcbender]

Benito

I am with ya... I love my hitch and just want those "looking" to have confidence in their very expensive upgrade.

I will be going to Yellowstone from NC in a few weeks, (6K miles I think) ... I'lll post my updates, but I have a new truck so its maybe a little more complicated.. (I I sure loved it on my 2004 HO 6spd...). My 5er is 44' and ~17K with all DW stuff in it.

Everyone has the ability to judge and make their own decisions but my dad and I both have the Goosebox and they seem fine, I had a air leak on mine, they sent me the parts and I fixed it, no problem, no cost! and now its good... Lifetime warranty...

Cheers!!! See you on the road. Enjoy the time on the road(s)

B