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Motorhome electrical mystery, what do you think

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Going from 5er to cabover

Question on Reese Fifth Wheel Hitch Installation

Andy Perreault

TDR MEMBER
My folks just arrived today in their 2000 Bounder. Last March, I had an electrician fix the wiring problems in my garage. I also had him install an RV-style 30amp outlet on the outside of the garage so my folks could plug into it. Well, today, we plugged it in, and found that a couple of circuit breakers in the motorhome blew. So, we fiddled around and did a little investigating, and wound up scratching our heads. The outlet worked, it's wired right, but some of the breakers kept popping, but not the main breaker.

After some more thinking, we figured out the source of the problem: The electrician wired up the outlet as 240v, not 120v!!

We inquired with an RV parts/sales place, and as the man was listening to us explain the problem (before hearing the whole story), he said, "You better hope that the electrician didn't wire up that outlet with 240 volts, or you're in deep sh**!" We told him that's exactly what happened. He said, "Your power converter is probably fried. " He went on to tell us that we can test to see if the converter is working or not by plugging in the motorhome to a regular 120v 15 amp outlet and putting a voltmeter on the batteries to see if they are getting a charge. We went on home to try it.

Back at my house, we plugged in, using an adapter, to a regular 15 amp 120v outlet. Nothing worked!! But then... SMOKE!! I immediately unplugged the motorhome from the house, and we found that the power converter was smoking.

Okay, so we know that the converter is gone, but here's where we're stumped... The converter plugs into an outlet in one of the basement storage boxes. I unplugged it, so that the converter was isolated or should I say "eliminated" from the A/C circuitry. We then plugged in the motorhome again to a 15 amp 120v outlet. Again, we found that still nothing works. I suggested unplugging the microwave oven from its outlet in the cupboard (a voltaged tester showed power at that outlet) and plugging it directly into the extension cord. We found that the light comes on when opening the door, but the digital display is blank, and the microwave won't come on. So, it looks like the microwave might be shot, too.

SO... my question is... what else might be damaged besides the power converter and the microwave? None of the wall outlets work, even though the circuit breakers are on. What would cause that? There was no smoke, buzzing, burning smell, or anything indicating melting wires, etc. , inside the motorhome. The only smoke we saw was from the converter. The refrigerator, which is now plugged into an extension cord, is working okay.

Sorry for the long posting, but I'd appreciate any input from anyone experienced with RV electrical nightmares. We're wondering if the entire electrical system is damaged. We're also wondering if there is some sort of surge protectors that we are not aware of.

Thanks in advance for any comments/advice.

Andy
 
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Many wall plugs in and outside of RV's have ground fault protection plugs at some point in their circuit - you might wanna check however many of those you can find and reset them - might have blown them as well... . Bummer...
 
If you can't get the breakers to reset (and stay reset) then they might have been damaged. Same to be said if the GFI's won't stay set. I had a smiliar problem with a commercial power grid, applied 120 volts to the neutral bar (essentially what your electrician did) and it burned out a few breakers that had to be replaced. If that electrician was licensed, I'd call him on it and hold him respnsible for the damages. :mad:



Kev
 
Thanks guys, Dad and I will do more investigating in the morning. I just corrected a typo in my posting. In the 3rd paragraph, I wrote, "Back at my house, we plugged in, using an adapter, to a regular 15 amp 12v outlet. " I meant to say "120v", not 12v.

dmurdock, thanks for putting this on the RVer forum. I knew there had to be some RV forums out there somewhere, but I wasn't sure where.

As for the electrician, giving him the benefit of the doubt, maybe he thought I wanted 240v, kind of like a dryer outlet. I just told him I wanted a 30 amp outlet for my folks to plug their motorhome into. I never specified 120 or 240. Heck, I figured he knew. I never even thought of him possibly hooking up 240 volts to it! And of course, when my dad and I plugged in the motorhome, we never thought to check if the outlet was 120 or 240. Who'da thunk it? We're gonna call him, though. Also, my folks' motorhome is covered under an extended warranty, so my Dad's going to call them, too. However, he's worried that they won't help, because the damage was no fault of the motorhome or a component of the motorhome.

In my posting, I mentioned how the counterman at the RV store said, "You better hope that the electrician didn't wire up that oulet with 240 volts... " before we had explained that to him. That indicates to me that we're not the only ones who have done this. He already knew what we were about to say. So, that brings up a good point... circuit breakers protect from too much amperage, but why don't RV's have some kind of overload/surge protectors to prevent damage from too much voltage?

Hmm, there are probably products like that out there, or at least there should be. Time to skim through all the little ads at the back of Motorhome magazine!

Andy
 
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No, I never did, Kent. By the time that outlet was installed, I was living in the house, so there was no need to plug in the trailer. How was your trip? Hope the trailer is suiting your needs and your kids are having fun.

Andy
 
You need an electricain familiar with RV wiring.



All 120 volt 30 AMP service is from a single pole breaker.



120 volt 50 Amp service is another animal all together. These RVs have a split bus in the circuit box and use a double pole breaker.



My pastor's 30 Amp plug was wired wrong - 220 volt. Fried everything that was plugged in and powered on.
 
Andy, sounds like you're all set now to offer hook-ups to anyone from Europe :D. Quite frankly, I'm very surprised that your electrician didn't validate the amperage, voltage and polarity before hooking up to your external systems.
 
Andy,



In fairness to your electrician, if I as a general contractor, asked for a 30 amp outlet on a garage, I would expect to get a 220v outlet. Unless specified as a 110 outlet, most garage type items on that large a circuit would be 220, welders, compressors, etc. The largest 110 circuits in a house are normally 20 amp.



Kent
 
Kent- I would only let the electrician off the hook if Andy didn't specifically ask for a 30amp RV hookup. If the electrician hadn't done one before (as it may appear to be the case) it is his responsibility to figure out how to do it. Otherwise, what's the point in hiring one?



Kev
 
Again, as a micro manager (personal fault), I wouldn't expect the average electrician to know that an RV 30 amp outlet was anything other than 220v. 30 amp 110 is highly unusual to the average Joe. I actually did this in a customer's barn once and probably had to insure the sparky five times that I really only wanted 110. It actually costs more for 220 than 110 (another breaker), so it wasn't the guy trying to cut corners.



KK
 
I am not a electrision but don't all femal out lets differ for each type of load 15 amp straight plug 20 amp left side cross on leg 30 amp large straight 50 amp slant legs , all 120 a/c 220 plug diffrent type plug . Ron in LOUISVILLE KY:confused: :confused: :confused: ;) PS look for a auto reset braker near the converter and also at the battry area . They look like a two post little box one post brass one steel they may have to be replaced can easy check with amp meter .
 
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I'm sorry but a RV 30 amp recepticle is supposed to only be 110. Anyone who wires up a 30 amp 110 recepticle to 220 is crazy. The recepticle says right on it 110 only. 220 recepticles are a different configuration and can not be confused with 110.

IMHO, this guy did not know what he was doing. :mad:

-Paul R. Haller-
 
I just had to jump into this discussion - I have set up a temporary computer network (w/ server and battery backups)at 3 tradeshows in the last 3 years. I have a reasonable amount of electrical knowledge and a electronics degree. These shows were at big Hotels. The 1st time I requested 30amp plug for my servers the electricians put in a 220v connection. I learned there that you have to specify to the average electrician to make it a 110V 30amp. in fact the last 2 years I had to go to great lengths to convince 3 different electricians that I really needed 30amp 110V service. It is very unusual in building wiring as has already been pointed out in this thread.
 
Ohms would turn in his grave......

Originally posted by jthomp2

It is very unusual in building wiring as has already been pointed out in this thread.



... . whereas in Europe a 220volts/ 30 Amps configuration is considered normal.....



Remind me, why did the USofA go for 110v/60Hz all them years ago..... must have been a good justification, think of all those Isquared current losses..... if you can remember your elementary electrical theory from the 8th grade Physics class?



 
Re: Ohms would turn in his grave......

Originally posted by JohnMcIntyre





... . whereas in Europe a 220volts/ 30 Amps configuration is considered normal.....



Remind me, why did the USofA go for 110v/60Hz all them years ago..... must have been a good justification, think of all those Isquared current losses..... if you can remember your elementary electrical theory from the 8th grade Physics class?








John, we're lucky if that's taught in college now... not much room in pre-college curriculum for "fluff" like math, physics, chemistry, english, etc...
 
Fluff?

Originally posted by dmurdock

We're lucky if that's taught in college now... not much room in pre-college curriculum for "fluff" like math, physics, chemistry, english, etc...



You're kidding right? I realise this is a little off-topic from the original question by Andy Perreault, but I cannot honestly believe that core subjects like these you mention are really deferred to further/higher education? What is the typical high school core curriculum now comprised of - pardon the alliteration ;)



JMc
 
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An update

Thanks for the helpful replies. I haven't been on my computer all week because of school. Here's the latest, from a phone conversation with my dad earlier this week (because I go to school full time and then work full time, I haven't seen my folks all week. I leave in the morning before they get up and I don't get home until well after they've gone to bed):



My dad contacted the electrician (who is not a pro, but a retired general contractor who does electrical work on the side), and he was very apologetic. He said he had just wired an outlet for his son's RV before he did mine, and that RV required 220v. So, he figured that's what they all do. I said to my dad, "I've never heard of an RV requiring 220", but my dad said the son's RV had dual air conditioners. Huh! Anybody ever heard of an RV requiring a 220v hookup? Maybe it's a big bus-chassis diesel pusher monster, I don't know.

Anyway, the electrician came right over and rewired the outlet so it is now correct. He also went through the motorhome to see what all was damaged. He found that the power converter, microwave oven, and two TV's were the only items that were damaged. The air conditioner, refrigerator, circuit breakers, etc. are all okay.

My dad contacted Bounder in regards to his extended warranty, and it sounds like they will take care of it. He has an appointment at a major RV dealership that is a Fleetwood authorized repair center in early August.

The electrician said if the warranty didn't cover some of the damaged items, he would pay for them. Again, he was very apologetic about the whole situation. He really is a nice guy, and we're not angry with him. It was an honest mistake. As others have pointed out, a 110v 30amp outlet is a rather unusual request for household usage.

So it looks like it's just a matter of getting a new power supply, microwave, and two TV's, and the motorhome will be as good as ever. My dad is going to insist that the RV place do a complete diagnostic on the electrical system. The motorhome starts, so we're pretty sure nothing was damaged in the 12v DC system.

Until the motorhome is repaired, my folks are just doing without TV, and are using my microwave. They're also starting the engine occasionally to keep the batteries charged.

Thanks again to all who helped out with their replies. I hope other RV owners can learn from this and save their RV from a meltdown.

Andy
 
RV Wiring

Don't know if I missed something reading through this thread but here goes. This should not have been able to happen at all, the style of plug used for 110 volt and 240 volt are different. So either the RV has the wrong type, or the electrician wired the wrong voltage to the recipticle. There should be a NEMA number designation on the plug and recepticle. For example the one on my generator is a L14-20 and rated for 20 amps 125/250 volts. If yours has two voltages listed on it, this does not mean that it could be used for either voltage, rather that it has a neutral, and will have 240 volt pole to pole and 120 volt to the neutral at the same time.

Don't expect circuit breakers to protect against over voltage, they only sense current. There are devices on the market that will do this, but they only seem to be installed on very expensive electronic equipment like CNC machines.

Might not be a bad idea to get a spare plug and a 300 volt meter and make a test unit.



Neil
 
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