Motorhome Repower Quest begins, Gonna need ya'lls advice

[cjohnson1]

Ok guys here goes.

I'm new to this Forum by about two days. Have been searching for months for info on Repowering my Fleetwood Motorhome. It is 37 Feet long and weighs in at 16,500 (there abouts) and usually pulls a very unique 4 x 4 Rodeo. Total weight is around 22,000lbs.

It currently has 70k miles and the 460 Ford is on it's death bed. A slow death for sure. The rest of the Coach is in excellent shape and trading it in would be a crime. Oak Cabinets, new Fridge, all that stuff replaced that will wear out except the engine.

I've looked and looked at Diesel Options for the task. Almost bought a few, but the Cat 3208 is to heavy and the Ford Powerjoke is a uh ,. . well you know. Money is not the biggest obstacle at this point. Prudent spending is. I have decided that the Cumming 5. 9 L is made to order. A long phone call to Larry B last night convinced me.

I like many of you have extensive fabrication skills from the ol Hot Rodding Days. So this does not scare me. I do have a fromer Diesel Mechanic buddy who will assit with the install.

Here lies my quest. Forgive my ignorance but I can't seem to find out these answers in my normal circles,so I'm turning to ya'll. ( A LIttle Texas Accent here)

About the 5. 9 L Cummings:

Is the motors used in the Dodge Pickup and the 600, 700 & 800 series Ford trucks the same engine?

I believe the Ford 460 and the 5. 9 Cumming weigh in about the same, give or take a couple of pounds. Right?

I think the Allison MT653 is the transmission I need. Will it be a BIG problem to find the bell housing to mate this transmission to the 5. 9 L Cummings?

I will regear the Dana 70 to something in the 3:70's range as I have 32 inch tall tires. (Motorhome 19. 5" Rims) The math will be worked out later, for the proper ratio. But what I need to know is what is the preferred overdrive/underdrive method of this board? Gear vendor, Brownie perhaps others? I'm thinking a divorced case unit mounted where the carrier bearing is now located so I can split gears. You see I have a penchance for the mountains and EXTREME Off Roading. I hate struggleling up the passes at 15 mph while the Greyhounds blast past me.

This is going to be like building a ship in a bottle, but hey I like it when people tell me it can't be done.

In conclusion: I really excited in finding this board and looking forward to pickin ya'lls brains. I'm sure we will cross paths someday and if your ever in Fort WorthTexas let me know. We'll cook up a cow!

Any and all advice will be appreciated. Now I'm off to pick thru the Search Function. I'll set up my profile in the next few days.

CurtisJ

 

[Hutchew]

Not much help for the drivetrain, but....

I believe the motor you would wanna find is a late 96 to early 98 12v 5 speed motor (motor doesn't have 5 speeds ). These are the easiest to bomb, unless you wanna go 24v and hassle with the wiring & computer, then you could plug in and dial yer power.

There was a thread here 'bout doing the allison thing, a search SHOULD pull it up. Otherwise:

http://www.allisontransmission.com/product/series/ is Allison website with product info.

http://www.reliabletransmissions.com/ is another source of infermation. (texas accent imitated:--) )

http://www.rvnetlinx.com/httechnical.php3 may be of use

Have ya considered an 8. 3 cummins? You probably have the room, and although I personally don't have any experience with them, they appear to be easily procurred.

Happy trails... ... ... ... ... ... ... .

 

[Snow man]

Cjohnson,welcome to the TDR, You may want to look at wrecked truck auctions,a friend of mine just bought 2 wrecked fed-ex trucks,ones a 99,the other a 2000,one was stuffed in the rear,the other rolled. He fixed the 99,its a freightliner chassis,16K GVWR,19. 5 tires,12valve 175hp,allison auto,I dont know which one,but its huge. I just bombed it for him! I got him a westach combo guage,and slid his plate forward. His 2000 has a 24valve,allison auto,he yanked the powertrain,and scrapped the truck,it was real bad. I think he only paid in the area of 2K each,for these trucks. I know the 99 had the alternator stolen off it,but it fired right up,the 200 had the put robbed off the side of the block,so he;s now in search of a 2000 computer,and harness so he can get it running. the 99 has 30K on it,the 2000 has 7K on it.

 

[philb4]

gear ratios

A brownie box may not be the best idea due to the fact it is a crash box with out syncros, however I am using one with a 5. 9 and an allison at540. It takes some practice to shift without grinding. Mating an allison is easy as this combination is used in the fleet. www.jeeptech.com has a link on the lower left side "gear tire ratios?" or use this http://www.jeeptech.com/javaAps/gta.html I can send pics of my spicer 3sp brownie box but they are not small and weigh about 400lbs. ratios are 1. 54/1. 00/. 75.

 

[cjohnson1]

Let's see if I can post a Picture of Da Bus from my new photo dite.

#ad




Thanks for your responses. I've burned up the minutes in my cell phone trying to track down a 5. 9L power plant.

Looking for the 96-98 "B"

The MT653 Allison I think I found for $850 outright in Ohio.



Hope the Picture come out. This baby has got to get done.

CJ

 

[philb4]

used engines link

www.car-part.com

 

[LarryB]

Hey CJ!

Welcome aboard! You must be serious about this. Nice talking with you the other night.



One small hint before someone else jumps on ya, there is no G in Cummins, nuff said.



That UPS truck idea Snowman mentioned sounds way cool. Snowman! What type of auction did he find these at? I may want to pick up a couple at that those prices. CJ is making me jelous with his project largeness. With coach prices in the dumper now maybe it's time for me to start a new and larger project.



Again, welcome aboard CJ, this will be fun.



Larry

 

[Mark_Kendrick]

As long as you get a 12v it shouldn't matter what year. just make sure its intercooled.

 

[cjohnson1]

Originally posted by LarryB

Hey CJ!

Welcome aboard! You must be serious about this. Nice talking with you the other night.



One small hint before someone else jumps on ya, there is no G in Cummins, nuff said.



That UPS truck idea Snowman mentioned sounds way cool. Snowman! What type of auction did he find these at? I may want to pick up a couple at that those prices. CJ is making me jelous with his project largeness. With coach prices in the dumper now maybe it's time for me to start a new and larger project.



Again, welcome aboard CJ, this will be fun.



Larry

Uh! Cummins Got it. Force of habit. Should have seen how long it took me to learn to spell "Caterpillar" without looking. HA!

Enjoyed the info Larry. Got really fired up about this after we talked. I spent the night designing motormounts instead of sleeping.

And the used Motor Coach market is in the dumpers right now. I saw one like mine the other day for $16,000

Yep, as soon as I can nail the parts down we're gonna start in on it. If the snow ever clears. Believe or not, it's snowing here like crazy. But it'll be gone in about 24 hours, until next year.



Thanks for the encouragement guys. I'm really looking forward to having this thing on the road again. And with a 100 Gal fuel tank I can hit my sons front door in Florida without stopping, If I can just get my wife to swap drivers on the go. HA!

I have the cash set aside to get this done right. Just gotta find the right parts.

The UPS trucks are a great lead. Thanks Snowman. I have a friend who's brother is a mechanic for them. I'll get his # and see what he can do.

So far the# I've tried at Parts Search.com keeps coming up with head-on crashed motors. Front of the blocks are trashed. (Did that come out right?)

I have the Allison web page booked marked and even ordered the manual on it.

Now just have to get the Manuals on the Cummins Motors.



Like you said Larry, The best part is once I'm done I'll know how to fix it if it ever gives me trouble.

The Dana rearend will be a no brainer for us. We regear off road axles all the time. Dana 70 is same but bigger. Only I've always gone to lower gears. This will be a new experience.



I'll keep Ya'll posted on the progress. Course if someone runs across a deal, before I do, on an engine you can't jump on send the lead my way. Summer is not far off.

Woop! Lunch if definitly over. Gotta run.

CJ

 

[cjohnson1]

Ok, Todays results.

Found a "91" 5. 9 L Cummins TD but not intercooled with 107,000 miles, for $3000. How hard is it to step on this motor so it will product about 300 reliable Horsepower? I do have a Intercooler available for $200.

He's picking up the shipping and it will be complete with all the acoutrements he says. Sound reasonable?

CJ

 

[bvanetten]

300 hp out of a 91. 5 might be tough. That's at the upper end of a bombed 1st gen pump. An extra grand "should" get ya a 2nd gen with a p pump. Well worth it.

 

[LarryB]

CJ, keep looking. You need at least a 94 with a P7100. A little extra searching now will save you a lot of headaches later. The pistons, pump, injectors, turbo plumbing, pump drive gears, and more are wrong on that engine if you want to make more than 300+hp in the end. Be patient grasshopper. The right one will come along. The price is OK if it were a 215hp motor.



Then again, it's your choice. I know how anxious a guy can get.



What is the intercooler off of?

 

[cjohnson1]

Ok, I'll pass on this one. This is why I am so tickeled to find this Forum. Last week I would have bought it and regretted it later. The intercooler is off an Isuzu 6. 9 L FTR I believe. Brand new. He may have more if anyone is interested, I can get the specs on them.

I still have a learning curve to catch on to. Thanks again Guys. I appreciate it.

CJ

 

[CrewCabDiesel]

CJ

Give Paul a call in Northern Wisconson, he has 5 or 6 Cummins in stock 800-338-4002. I would go with a 94-98 Cummins, better pumps = more power . Also add a Banks intercooler(more money but they do it right) On exhaust, run at least a 4" (I would run a 5" with the lenght of your motor home). Get the biggest Alum. Radiator that you can weg in there, with a horton fan setup.

just my . 02

Kyle

 

[cjohnson1]

Originally posted by CrewCabDiesel

CJ

Give Paul a call in Northern Wisconson, he has 5 or 6 Cummins in stock 800-338-4002. I would go with a 94-98 Cummins, better pumps = more power . Also add a Banks intercooler(more money but they do it right) On exhaust, run at least a 4" (I would run a 5" with the lenght of your motor home). Get the biggest Alum. Radiator that you can weg in there, with a horton fan setup.

just my . 02

Kyle

Thanks for the lead Kyle. I'll call him this morning. Gotta give hime time to open. The 94 - 98 sounds to be the ticket so I've narrowed my search to those years models. I'm assuming Paul has dealt with you guys before and will know what I'm talking about when I mention this is to replace the Ford 460. One guy yesterday thought I was nuts. "Why in the world would you want to go to all that trouble " he asked.

I just said "Mountains"!

My gas motor exhaust exits on the right in front of the rear wheels. I was planning to do the same with the diesel to keep it short. There arn't any windows on that side that we open while driving. So, I'm guessing it would be OK. Right or wrong?

Anouther Guess here but, the Motorhome radiator is an enormous 4 row. I was thinking it might keep it cool as it looks like it came from a semi. I'll measure it as soon as the wether clears. I am planning on doing the "Banks Thing" as soon as I had a motor on the shop floor. Oh, and the "KDP" trick as well.

Boy I love my one rate cell phone. I'm wearing it out. Ha.

Cover Me, I'm Going in!

CJ

 

[Mark_Kendrick]

CJ, what crewcabsaid. . but I would. t bother w/the 5" I put 2 huge mufflers on it and insulate the cab up near the motor as much as possible. being an rv i'd want it to whisper and run like a freight train.

Oo.

 

[LarryB]

CJ

Mine exits out the side without a problem. Cab is noisier than with the gaspot but not much.

 

[cjohnson1]

Well shoot, Not much luck so far.

Results of my search reveals several 94's from $2000 to $2400.

None of which are complete or are not in running order. I did find a 98 but the brackets are broken off the front of the block. And it didn't have all the acutriments that go with the motor. I have feelers out everywhere, but no positive leads.

I have spent my time looking at the articles in the search function. Learning as I wait for for the service maunals. Should be here next week.

I haven't heard from the Allison transmission people yet about the adapters for the 5. 9l.

Oh well, The search continues.



CJ

 

[Scot]

Originally posted by cjohnson1

Ok, I'll pass on this one. This is why I am so tickeled to find this Forum. Last week I would have bought it and regretted it later. The intercooler is off an Isuzu 6. 9 L FTR I believe. Brand new. He may have more if anyone is interested, I can get the specs on them.

I still have a learning curve to catch on to. Thanks again Guys. I appreciate it.

CJ

Re intercooler. You can get a stock 94-01 unit over the counter for something like $375 in Fort Worth. Same manufacturer as the Dodge unit.

 

[cjohnson1]

Things are looking up. I got a lead from "bighoss450" about a friend who had a 97 5. 9L for sale. This one is reported to be set up for 250 horses, so it's exactly what I'm trying to find. I can't reach the guy who is holding the engine until Monday, but you can bet your bottom dollar he'll get my call 1st thing Monday Morning.

Thanks Kurt, I had a nice talk to Ted about this engine and feel pretty good about it.

I may get this sucker going by May yet. Moab Zu ZU 5 run the middle of the month.

Anybody know where I can get the parts to bolt up the Allison Mt653 to the 5. 9 L? I may have to contact Allison and buy the parts new. I found the transmission but not the adapters to bolt them together.

Need more research on how to hook up this transmission to engine combination. My manuals won't show up for a few more days.

Think I may be able to sleep better tonight.

Later Guys

CJ