My Diesel ownership status is hard to justify

[Nickaru]

I hear so many people complain about the lift pump problems and end up putting in another lift pump just to see it fail again down the road. Why? We know it's a known problem, so why not try another solution. These lift pumps might be somewhat cheap, but injection pumps are not. Having low fuel pressure will shorten the life of an injection pump. I installed the FASS along with a fuel pressure gauge and forgot about my lift pump worries.

At 20 mpg, what other full size truck can you find that gets that kind of mileage.

Also, in magazines, I always see people trying to JUSTIFY the extra expense of the diesel engine in a purchase of a truck and they compare it to the price of fuel only and state omething such as, "It will take over 17 years of ownership for the diesel option to pay for itself with diesel being a few cents cheaper per gallon. " (That's not the case now with diesel being more expensive. ) With a diesel you get the torque to pull your trailer, less maintenance than a gas (spark plugs, cap, rotor, wires etc), a 400,000+ mile engine vs. gas, simple bolt on's for more power compared to gas (headers, manifolds, cams Etc), as you hot rod a diesel your mileage stays the same if not improves (can't say that about a gasser) and best of all, you can race and beat a RICER and your at 7400 lbs of truck. Pretty impressive. I'll get of my sopabox.

 

[RJOL]

1. But lets see... the truck alone cost substantially more than an average pickup. 2. Diesel is 12 cents higher a gallon than premium here. 3. Lift pump #3 has 1000 miles on it and it appears to be dying already with 7psi idle pressure. 4. I'm pretty sure I need a new VP44 soon due to some issues I wont get into. 5. The maintenance is more expensive overall at the intervals I use. 6. There is no way I could justify spending $45,000 on a new one... whether Ford, GM or Dodge. 7. I don't have to have a diesel pickup. I have used mine to its potential before... but could get by without it. QUOTE]





Well... let's give this a try...



1. Yes it cost more... It also will last a lot longer, and your trade in will be worth more.

2. Yes diesel cost a little more right now. But is that really an issue when you wil get close to twice the mileage in a diesel compared to a big block gasser?

3. If you have changed out 3 lift pumps, maybe something else is wrong. Remember, it is covered under warranty for first 100K.

4. VP44 faliure is not that common if you take care of your fuel system, and monitor your fuel pressure, and don't modify the cr** out of you engine (remember... you pay to play).

5. Don't see this as a big issue. I change my oil (myself) every 3-5K, change the fluids as required (myself), and haven't had any large maintenance items yet with 51K on the clock.

6. I don't know where you are planning to buy a new truck, but if you spend $45K on a new diesel 2WD, you just aren't shopping right.

7. Now I finally agree with you on this one. If you really don't need a truck, maybe you shouldn't own one. You could buy a KIA or Hyundai for less then 15K and cut your expensed down a lot...

 

[Joe G.]

I don't think I will knock Neil at all. It's his money and his needs.



I agree with y-knot on this perpetual debt stuff. When I decided to buy a diesel pickup I went shopping. I tried them all. I liked the Dodge with the Cummins a lot better than the others. I won't comment on them since this shopping trip was in '93. I didn't like the Dodge because the ride was incredible. I saved my money. The '94 Dodge didn't have a back seat so I saved more money and waited. I ordered my '95 in August '94. It arrived in April!! By that time I have saved up a lot plus I had very good year in the contract programming racket. Wrote a check for it. I just could not stand the idea of paying interest on a loan that big. I will keep it until I have problems with buzzards checking it out. Diesel is 10 cents less than the cheapest gas here. No lift pump problems. The noisy mess under the hood just keeps on makeing a racket. 233K miles on it.

 

[Big_Daddy_T]

The first 30% in depriciation happens in the first 2 years. It levels off after that. I paid 3000 plust interest to drive my last truck for over 40k miles and more than two years. Thats less than 150 dollars a month in depreciation. I had to pay less than 150 dollars a month for the privledge. Of course full coverage insurance is a different story.

It was over two years old but under drivetrain warranty. Before it hit 100k. I spent 180 dollars out of my pocket in repairs. Its like the stock market. The trick is to know when to get in. And more importantly. When to get out.

 

[TrqMonster]

On the subject of paying off your loans to get out of debt, I dont think very many people realize how much paying a little extra each month helps lower the amount of interest you pay and how long you pay. Being a business major, accounting minor, they actually tought me some good stuff in this area. If you make sure to apply it towards the principle it can lower the number of payments you make and interest paid (if the loan allows it). Leases do have benefits to, especially if there is a buy option in the end at a good price, but I do agree that leasing is much smarter for businesses.

As I stated earlier, I am in school and own a lawn care business using two Exmark zero turns and I could probably drive a cheaper truck. But I was driving a well maintained 92 Dakota and I dont think it would take much more. A V-8 gas gets crap mileage and doesnt make near the power w/o mods, realiability (as discussed above), I know as I am driving a 2000 1500 right now while my 96 3500 is being repaired. The Diesel is a work truck and thats why I bought it. If it is made to hanle way more than what I do with it, it should last a lot longer with less problems (my justification).



We all have our reasons and if you have thought them through and did some research then thats your decision which only you can make.

 

[JyRO]

Oh crap, you guys have to mention trade-ins. My tongue is bleeding from biting it so hard. I bought my 2000 model in '99 (I traded in nothing, sold my Suburban after putting in my order for the Ram). I put almost 10k down on a $34k truck. My payments were high enough at $24k, and I managed to pay it off in 3. 5 years. My truck is now 5 years old, and honestly it still seems like a new truck to me. I told myself when I bought it, the plan was to keep it for 10 years. After 10 years if it was still a good truck, I'd keep it another 5 years. So far, I think I'll easily make it to 10 years. Just got through putting over 3k miles on it this weekend. That's right, this weekend. I slept only about 2 hours and drove the rest. The truck ran like champ.



About trade-ins. Maybe, in some peoples case, there is no way around trading a truck in. But for anyone who's paid off their truck, it should be possible to buy another and sell your old truck after receiving the next, or vice-versa. Here's another point I want to make. Why do you think the dealer loves trade-ins so much? Why is that nearly the 1st thing they ask you when salesman walks up to you on the lot.



"How you doin'?" Fine, and you? "Good, good. So, what can I put you in today, and what will you be trading in?" That's about how it goes. Dealerships make a boat load of money deceiving you into thinking you're getting a good deal on the trade. Trust me folks, in some cases your vehicle is being legally stolen from you. In all the rest of the cases, you're only getting a fraction what you'd get selling it outright.



Trading-in has its benefits at times. It's quick, for those with no patience, or those with a payment. You do get a sales tax break on the purchase of the next vehicle (at least in some states, not sure if all are the same). But I have never heard a case where the amount of money saved in taxes was even close to the money lost on trade-in. Also, good times to trade-in are when your vehicle will just barely make it to the dealer lot before it seizes. Or your vehicle is a lemon. Trust me, as much money as dealers make with trade-ins and as deceptive as dealers are with trade-ins, a few lemons and seized engines are a drop in the bucket. I'd rather sell my lemon or problemed vehicle to the dealer than an individual, in the case that I wasn't going to have it fixed myself.



I'm only posting this long post to say ... if its possible, go make your bottom dollar deal on your next vehicle then sell your old vehicle privately, or vice versa if possible. Trust me, there is money to be saved doing this way. Your new vehicle will pay off much sooner going this route.



Right now I have two 2000 model vehicles that have been paid off for a while. I also have a 2004 Corolla that has a $282 monthly payment. I'm on easy street right now, and all my vehicles are well maintained and reliable. It should only get easier from this point, because all the money that was being spent on the payments for the two 2000 model vehicles is being saved (except the $282). The next vehicle may be paid for with cash, and then sell the old vehicle and still have that lump in savings. This works much better for me than continuous high payments. And during the times of low payments, if I want some toy, I don't have to ask the bank if they'll make me a loan. If I want it, I've got a lump to dip into to buy it.



Blah blah blah, you guys will still do what you want, and I wish you the best of luck.



- JyRO

 

[MFalkinham]

Trust me folks, in some cases your vehicle is being legally stolen from you. In all the rest of the cases, you're only getting a fraction what you'd get selling it outright.



- JyRO

You are so right! This past summer we bought my wife a new 2004 GM minivan to replace her 2000 minivan (the huge GM incentives plus our GM Card points made it a deal we couldn't pass up). After getting the best cash price from the dealer, I asked about a trade-in. The dealer only offered us $6500 for our 2000 with 60,000 miles on it. I said "no, thanks" and put it up for sale on autotrader.com.



Three months went by without much interest, and I was starting to think we had made a big mistake by not trading. Then, out of the blue someone bought it for $8500, and we made $2000 profit over trading it in. So, unless something is seriously wrong with my vehicle, I don't think I can ever trade-in again knowing how much money I'd be losing.



- Mike

 

[Ncostello]

My original intent was to think about whether or not to keep a 2500 I was unhappy with everyday... or get something light duty and get an older rig to wrench on and have fun with. I chose the latter.



I didn't intend my finance choice to become the topic of discussion or debate. I know there are alot of options and all have good and bad points. I know the dealership personally and the sales person is a good friend. My first job in highschool was washing new Dodge cars here.



I leased the truck without the trade considered. They wrote me a real check and bought my truck from me... which I took to the bank, cashed and paid my loan off. I then put $2000 in my bank account. This is my starting point to own a used first gen. They gave me what I was going to ask in a trader magazine. I researched classifieds and price guides for a long time prior. If you consider what I paid... and what I sold it for... I drove it for two years at $112. 50 per month.



I like the truck I'm leasing but wouldn't want to keep if forever. In fact I don't know of any vehicle out there now I'd want to keep long term. I don't like any that much... including a new Ram Diesel. I'll pay the rent for three years to be comfortable, safe and convenient. All I gotta do is change oil and drive. Then they can have it back.

 

[HootieF]

I have had my new truck for a month. Has been back to the dealer for the third time. Besides other issue on this truck like bad milage, a bad smell from the AC, the truck viberates at 65-67mph and it is a disappointment to drive for any a long distance trips. When you pull something it really drives you crazy. I did have the TSB done and my overhead is reading 15. 5 about 2mph better then when I put in the shop but not hand calculated. And I just paid $2. 49 yesterday in VA. for a gal of fuel. It's hard for me to justify this truck but it's my own fault. Higher payment, higher insurance, higher property tax, tags are higher and the fuel is 20 cents higher then prem-gas.

 

[DPelletier]

I have had my new truck for a month. Has been back to the dealer for the third time. Besides other issue on this truck like bad milage, a bad smell from the AC, the truck viberates at 65-67mph and it is a disappointment to drive for any a long distance trips. When you pull something it really drives you crazy. I did have the TSB done and my overhead is reading 15. 5 about 2mph better then when I put in the shop but not hand calculated. And I just paid $2. 49 yesterday in VA. for a gal of fuel. It's hard for me to justify this truck but it's my own fault. Higher payment, higher insurance, higher property tax, tags are higher and the fuel is 20 cents higher then prem-gas.

... ... . And over here on the flip side; I've now had my truck for a year and it hasn't even touched the pavement on the dealerships driveway since the day it left the lot. Mine gets excellent mileage (better than my 6cyl Jeep TJ that weighs half as much); doesn't vibrate and is a pure joy to drive. I often just go for a drive because I like it. I tow/haul 18,000 lbs GCVW up 8% grades at 60 mph. To top it all off Diesel is 20% cheaper than regular gasoline here. Its hard for me to justify NOT having this truck. I have 6 trucks right now; 1 purchased from Chrysler finance on a 0% 48mo loan and leased one at 0% for 36mo (after which time I'll buy it), the rest are paid for. I don't intend to comment on Neils financial choices, but I will say that I believe that leasing usually only makes sense for a business. I've leased diesels and gas trucks and the diesels always seem to have residual value (unlike the gassers).



Cheers,

Dave



ps. Oh, in case you missed it, I am really happy with my truck.