My dodge thinks its' a FORD - serious problem

[rbattelle]

Mack,



Where do you buy your fuel down there?



-Ryan

 

[y-knot]

This whole story stinks! If I served you a plate load of dog crap, could I convince you it tasted good?? Most likely NOT. It is IMPOSABLE to run a Cummins or any other diesel engine for 400 miles without OIL... . Even with oil, there is normal wear that occur es. What do you think happens without oil? Accelerated wear. How much?? You would need to drop the oil pan and remove the main bearing caps to gauge just how much wear took place in the lower end. You still have the upper end and turbocharger to worry about, they all rely on oil for survival.

If you are willing to except the Dodge dealers version of what happened and what went on inside the block... . then I would part ways with the truck as soon as possible. Anyone vaguely familiar with engines and mechanical assemblies, would no better then too listen to the garbage the dealers are spreading. Only close inspection could detail the wear and tear that was caused by the 400 miles of no engine oil. Good Luck

 

[OT-OF-HERE!!]

Dealer B. S.

Deler just called, They are replacing #4 injector, and draining the fuel out of the motor. Thats it.



They say that the engine is fine, no rod/mains damage. They did Not pull the pan, said star told 'em not to.



I ran this thing 400 miles with just fuel in the crank case. It did run good, but I cannot believe there is no wear on the bearings.



What do you think??

I'd push for a new engine. With all that cylinder wash and wear throughout the engine!!!! No telling how shortened the engine life has become due to that injector. If there is nothing wrong with it, per your dealer, then they shouldn't object to adding a FREE extended warranty on your drivetrain.

 

[tractorseller]

If you decide you want to keep it I'd ask for a free 200,000 mile warranty on the engine. That's the least they can do. If not, I'd dump it and get a new one just for the peace of mind if you can afford it.



That little doubt about the engine in the back of your mind on a long trip or in a remote place with your family where help may be miles away isn't worth it IMHO. I know it's mechanical and anything can happen, even to a new one, but I don't like to tempt fate.



I hope this works out for you.

 

[E7mack96]

Y-knot, I am not giving plate loads of crap.



The engine blew an injector near the florida / ga line. I determine this because it was there that the truck popped, quit running for a split second, the picked right back up. No abnormal noises or rough running of any kind. I babied it to 1/2 way between chattanoga and knoxville. It was 100% fuel in the crankcase at macon GA (this is where i had to refuel (approx 250 miles too soon by normal distances per tank) and verified the situation)



It was in the middle of the night, icy and cold. My family and I decided to limp it as far as we could. I babied the motor as best as I could.



When it started loosing oil (fuel) pressure and the guage went to zero, I stopped for the night, (just past Chattanoga) then next morning had it towed to the nearest Dodge dealer that works on Cummins. I then got a rental car to get back to Cincy.



I do believe there is damage to the engine. I figured since there already was (assumed) damage to the motor from the fuel/oil mix, that I would keep driving it as the damage was done already.



The dealer is fully aware of the fact it was driven approx 400 miles with no oil, just fuel in the crankcase.



They still say that the engine has oil pressure that is within spec. (While I was there, they drained fuel out and refilled crankcase and started her up and ran until she was up to operating temps). There was no rod knock, ect...



I will say that, if there is indeed no damage, the Cummins engine is near bulletproof and fuel still has some lubricity to it.



As this is a lease vehicle, I will keep it 'til the end of the lease, or she blows, but will not be buying it at the end of the lease. (as with all leases, I am upside down approx $6,000 at this point)

 

[E7mack96]

Ryan,



I get fuel at major truck stops, Pilot, Flying J, ect... I have a corp fuel card good for fuel at theses places and have never had probs with the fuel.

 

[rbattelle]

Ryan,



I get fuel at major truck stops, Pilot, Flying J, ect... I have a corp fuel card good for fuel at theses places and have never had probs with the fuel.

I was just curious, since we live very close. Thought maybe you fueled exclusively at one particular spot (except on trips)... which I could avoid like the plague!



I'm glad to hear it's a lease vehicle. I think it would suck a lot more if you owned it.



-Ryan

 

[E7mack96]

4xquadrod,



I guess the EZ could be a easy out for them.



I did not even have it on the truck. It has been off since the first driveshaft issue back in November. I have had 2 different driveshaft probs and, until I was comfortable with them being fixed, intended on leaving the thing off the truck. (also dreaming of a tst powermax cr in the future)



The EZ did not have any bearing on this failure.

 

[bmoeller]

Y-knot, I am not giving plate loads of crap.

I don't he meant you were giving the load of crap, just the dealer.



I hope they decide to do what is right. I'd have a hard time beleiving nothing happened to the internals of the engine. I'd want to see the pan dropped. And they sure as heck better not charge for the oil.



Hope it all turns out well for you. That sucks. :{

 

[JohnnyH]

Its ashame that some unsuspecting customer will be buying that truck in a few years. DC should be ashamed of themselves. This is why I NEVER buy a used vehicle that came off a lease. Actually I dont really buy used vehicles at all.

 

[DKarvwnaris]

Its ashame that some unsuspecting customer will be buying that truck in a few years. DC should be ashamed of themselves. This is why I NEVER buy a used vehicle that came off a lease. Actually I dont really buy used vehicles at all.

This bothers me more than the lack of action by the dealerships shop. If the engine blows up while you have it, you most likely have the history to show what happened and firsthand knowledge of why it is sitting roadside with a hole through its block or pan. Once somebody buys that truck used, they'll expect it to be a nice clean truck with low miles and beautiful interior, paint, etc. There is no way to see the fact the bearings have crapped themselves and are awaiting a light load to show their damage when it's sitting on a dealer lot awaiting a unsuspecing buyer.

If this truck is to be traded in, leave a paint pen message somewhere stating the dealer repair # and reason for repair in an obvious and clear space. Possibly list it on Ebay for $500,000. 00 for being equipped with the first engine impervious to friction damage and able to lubricate itself on diesel fuel alone. It would at least get a few thousand more hits of public exposure than this site will provide. I saw a few folks doing it before there. Make sure you include the service orders in the in the vehicle pic images.

Bright yellow paint pens are hard to remove if applied to the underside of the hood for example, The sales twerps will not pay attention and if all is in order when you trade it, the detailers will likely not even lift the hood. At the very least, make sure it is entered into the dealer service order record with the VIN# as to cause and remedy they determined.

Walking away from a troublesome vehicle is best for the individual who bought it, but does nothing to hold the trucks repair contracted dealer accountable.

If anyone feels that Cummins would pull this type of crap on a customer, think again, This is why I really wish the warranty work for these engines remained with Cummins. DiaperBenz is worthless for customer service, if it wasn't for the axles, transmission's, Transfer cases, and engines in a cummins equipped truck being built by someone else, I would never ever own one in this day and age.

Good to know Lee Iacoca's degrading of the star hasn't been pushed to any thing higher since. It would nice to see Cummins contract themselves to one of the other big three!!! That will show the true die hard Chrysler fans left faster than anything.

 

[rbattelle]

If this truck is to be traded in, leave a paint pen message somewhere stating the dealer repair # and reason for repair in an obvious and clear space.

Now that is a very interesting idea. But instead of a paint pen, I'd get a set small steel stamps (really cheap at Harbor Freight) and stamp in a short message somewhere along the inside of one frame rail warning potential future buyers that the truck might be bad. They'd have to use a grinder to get the message off.



Very interesting idea.



-Ryan

 

[DKarvwnaris]

Now that is a very interesting idea. But instead of a paint pen, I'd get a set small steel stamps (really cheap at Harbor Freight) and stamp in a short message somewhere along the inside of one frame rail warning potential future buyers that the truck might be bad. They'd have to use a grinder to get the message off.



Very interesting idea.



-Ryan

Frames are easily coated with undercoating to cover stampings. It needs to be in an area that's actually viewable by perspective owners. Few people do more than pop the hood and check the oil thinking they are getting accurate ideas of the vehicles history. Once home they may replace the air filter, plugs, oil filter etc. The air box is rarely checked by detailers when the car is prepped for resale, hint, hint. A friend of mine left a CD in the changer for the future owner that was a voice spoken history of the car, he actually got a call about two weeks after he traded it in from the new buyer to see if he still had all the extra's he removed from it before dropping it off at the dealer. He sold his accesories to the guy and gave him a list of things to complain to the dealership while still under warranty from the dealer. I think they had a 90 day dealer promise or something in house. His actual manufacturer's warranty had expired long ago. They fixed all but two things, and weren't happy about it either. It was nothing more for him than returning the favor for a lowballed trade in and failure to fix the car right when he asked them to in the past when he still owned it. The new owner and him are still friends to this day. Think about it a bit, you'll find a way to leave your mark that lasts.



Anyway I can put the "love" back on a dealer, I will do it. I'm sick of the lies, deceit, and outright illegal swindling most pull. I know, I worked at one for a while, couldn't sleep at night or face the customers from the crap my co worker's pushed on them. If you know of a good one, tell me, I'm still searching for one to buy a new car at. Nothing in my town for new. A few of the used lots are legit, which is sad to say the least that a used lot will treat you better than a licensed dealer for new!!!

 

[JMolt]

When you return your truck after the lease expires. Document this problem in the back of the owners manuel. The future truck buyers test driving it will thank you.

 

[WNowlan]

diesel fuel in engine

Don't Flame But... ... ...



Fuel injector problems with diesel engines are not new.



It is very possible due to the synthetic oil you were running that it did not cause significant wear. Your engine did not see straight diesel. The fact that the truck was not loaded also helped to prevent further damage. The viscosity of the oil and fuel mixture provided enough of a hydrodynamic wedge that prevented the engine from cooking the bearings or a cylinder.



In my 20 plus years of selling oil, I have seen this all to often. When my customers (large diesels-D 60 Series, Cats and Cummins) experience high fuel dilutions on oil analysis, we recommend to monitor closely. I have seen some that have had 10% or more fuel dilution and the wear metals spike, they fix the leaking injector and then drive the engine on out over 1 million miles before doing major engine work. The wear pattern most always will settle back to normal or pre-event levels.



THE ISB CUMMINS is a tough son of a gun. When you get your truck back do oil analysis for the next 4-5 oil drains. I would bet that these would be in line for an engine with your mileage.



You would also if they don't fall in line, have a real case to have the engine replaced/rebuilt. :-{}



We could be wrong:

I know all of you have seen the great infomercials that cronical this all the time with these great additives. :-laf Heck sometimes they even drain the engine, with nothing in there it still runs?. :-laf





Good Luck,

Warren

 

[Intense Marine]

Injector problems.

I understand your problem and I feel for you. The only thing that I would add to what you should do is, get it in writing from them that they did not pull the pan and that in "THERE OPINION" they do not feel there has been any damage coused by this problem.



The main reason I am posting a reply is the amount of people that are having this problem. Last week friday I posted a "911 post" for some help for a buddy of mine's truck. His did the exact same thing and his block was full of diesel fuel. He was told the same thing, there SHOULD not be any other damage, they will drain the block and refill the motor with oil. I was told by our local dealer that it was an o-ring that split on one injector. My main concern is if this is becoming a common problem maybe they should have a recall on there injectors.



Brad

 

[Prairie Dog]

I know it's hard to believe but I've seen lots of big rigs with crank cases full of diesel and no damage done. Many of them putting on a million or more miles after that. Call a local Cummins shop and talk to them about it - you'll feel better.

 

[rbattelle]

Mack, do you use any fuel additives?



-Ryan

 

[E7mack96]

Ryan,



I use Power Service every few tanks. Sometimes the white bottle, sometimes the silver one. We stock it here for our Class 8 trucks.

 

[FDavid]

Hey Mack,



Last time I saw you at the chicken wings place I coulda sworn you had a TST box on your truck



if your dealer aint treatin you right, its a pretty well known fact Kings Dodge has the best dodge cummins mechainic in the city.



BTW my buddy is still tellin everyone stories about your 135mph semi :-laf



Dave