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My experiment with K&N.

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Hey jjohn,

Maybe we can adapt a particle separator from a Bell 206. Breathes good, filters good (so the engineers say), no oiling, and easy to maintain. But we'd have to use too much bleed air from our turbos to operate it and a whole other engine compartment just to house it:-laf But I did see a pic of an Allison 250-C20 in a motorcycle:eek: Anyway, I'll keep the K&N for now and check up on the intake/blades during my next service. I've considered the BHAF, but I'd prefer an airbox to keep rain water dripping from the hood/fender area and to channel in cold air. Maybe some of us could take a stroll through the truck section the next time we visit a wrecking yard. Perhaps an oversized airfilter system from a C8. 3 Ford Louisville would work in our Rams.



Mike
 
I have used K & N since 1984 (about 300K miles) and have never found either dirt or oil on the clean side or in turbo??



Vaughn
 
Well, its good to hear that so many of you have had good experiences with K&N. As for me, I think that the AMSOIL filter looks the best. I will order one soon and post the results. I guess after almost dusting my engine, I can't go back to K&N. I know I could have just gotten a bad one, but I just don't have any confidence in it. If anything, I know I can trust the good ol quality paper filter. I like performance, but I am not going to sacrifice the life of my engine.





Mike
 
Found it!!

I dug this up from a BMW Racing Special Interest Group.



I was responsible for evaluating re-usable air filters for a major construction/mining company that had hundreds of vehicles ranging from large earthmovers to pick-up trucks and salesmen's cars. This study was embarked upon due to the fact that we were spending upwards of $30,000 a MONTH on paper air filters. Using them one time then throwing them away. . I inititated the study in that I was convinced that a K&N type filter or oiled foam would save us many dollars per year in filter savings, man hour savings, and of course engines as these would filter dirt better than paper. (yes, I had read the K&N ads and was a believer)



Representative test units were chosen to give us a broad spectrum from cars right through large front end loaders. With each unit we had a long history of oil analysis records so that changes would be trackable. Unfortunately, for me, every single unit having alternative re-usable air cleaners showed an immediate large jump in silicon (dirt) levels with corresponding major increases in wear metals. In one extreme case, a unit with a primary and secondary air cleaner, the secondary (small paper element) clogged before even one day's test run could be completed. This particular unit had a Cummins V-12 engine that had paper/paper one one bank and K&N/paper on the other bank; two completely independent induction systems. The conditions were EXACTLY duplicated for each bank yet the K&N allowed so much dirt to pass through that the small filter became clogged before lunch. The same outcome occured with oiled foams on this unit.



We discontinued the tests on the large pieces almost immediately but continued with service trucks, formen's vehicles, and my own company car. Analysis results continued showing markedly increased wear rates for all the vehicles, mine included. Test concluded, switched back to paper/glass and all vehicles showed reduction back to near original levels of both wear metals and dirt. I continued with the K&N on my company car out of stubborness and at 85,000 miles the Chevy 305 V-8 wheezed its last breath. The top end was sanded badly; bottom end was just fine. End of test.



I must stress that EVERYONE involved in this test was hoping that alternative filters would work as everyone was sick about pulling out a perfectly good $85 air cleaner and throwing 4 of them away each week per machine... So, I strongly suggest that depending upon an individual's long term plan for their vehicles they simply run an oil analysis at least once to see that the K&N or whatever alternative air filter is indeed working IN THAT APPLICATION... It depends on a person's priorities.



If you want performance then indeed the K&N is the way to go but at what cost??? And no, I do not work for a paper or glass air filter manufacturing company nor do I have any affiliation with anything directly or indirectly that could benefit George Morrison as a result. .



Here's the info I have on air filter performance. Tests were done using SAE J726C Test Method 5-best --> 1-worst



A = Oiled foam (AMSOIL, UNI)

B = Paper

C = Oil Bath

D = Oiled Gauze (K&N)



... ... . Filter Type... ... ... . A B C D

Large particle efficiency 5 5 5 4

Small particle efficiency 5 4 1 2

Airflow capacity... ... ... . 5 2 3 5

Dust holding capacity... 4 2 5 2

Load up characteristic. . 4 1 5 1

Backfire characteristic. . 3 2 5 3

Cleanability... ... ... ... ..... 4 1 4 3



As you can see, K&Ns are great for airflow, which is what they were designed for. Their original application was on racing engines, where airflow is important and ultimate engine life was of little concern. They are not as good at filtering as paper or oiled foam types.
 
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K&N

Amsoil does not make a filter for the first gen trucks. To stop the fine dust from getting through I installed a open cell foam precleaner which I made myself. I soaked in in engine oil to catch more dirt. The next time I service it I will use the amsoil tack oil to oil it as it is extremely tacky and it is what they use on their air filters as they are made of an open cell foam. I don't know if it does as good of job as the paper element as I have not done oil analysis but it does offer better protection and extends K&N maintenance intervals as it is easier to clean the foam rather than the K&N.



CR Toney
 
Sounds like a good Idea CR. I was thinking maybe some of the people who have the consistent good K & N results live in a higher humidity climate where air born dust isn't as prevalent as it is in semi arid Colorado. Just a thought.
 
I have been running K&N for 60,000 miles - no dusting on turbo vanes, etc. Much lower air restriction. This includes extensive off-road application in extremely dusty and dirty back country environments - this rig is used extensively in Search and Rescue. I talked with K&N Engineering about their filters before using - according to the SAE test results the filter is slightly more efficient than paper at capturing dirt and does exhibit lower flow restriction. The filter is not recommended for heavy duty off road equipment (i. e. mining, construction, agriculture) because it does not have the dirt holding capacity required for this type of application. As an oh-by-the-way I have had two paper filters breach in 270,000 miles, one was a Wix the other a Fram. Just my two pennies worth. Find out what works best for you and stick with it!
 
K&N filters

Smoky: I had the same problem with K&N Filter. I talked to a factory rep at the SEMA show. He sent me a tube of filter sealing grease. to put on the end of the filter to seal it to the filter housing, NO more problems. He said dust can get around the end of the filter if grease is not used. Only use K&N filter grease, others melt out and a real mess.

Bob.

-- email address removed --
 
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Smokey,



Like you, I have an oily build up after the filter all the way to the turbo. The last time I serviced the filter, I put a stock filter in for about a week and let the K&N sit after oiling. I suspect I'm putting on too much oil and this is some of the problem. My last oil analysis came back good, everything normal so there can't be a lot of dirt getting thru. I'll look at the next service to see how things look and will probably go back to stock filters if there is dirt on the clean side again. Having a clean oil analysis helps but I still don't like seeing dirt where there shouldn't be any!:confused:
 
It's really too bad Amsoil doesn't make a filter for our first gens. I really though I had found the answer to my air filtration needs.



The foam pre-cleaner sounds like a good idea. It’s got to be better than just the K&N by itself. Dare I buy another in hopes that I just had a bad filter, and use a foam pre-cleaner and K&N grease? I hate to after what had happened with the old one, which is now in the landfill. I can't decide if I should give it another chance, or not.



I think some of you are right about applying too much oil, or not letting it dry properly. This could have some effect on "dirty" turbo fins, and intercooler lines.



Mike
 
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