Engine/Transmission (1998.5 - 2002) My Surging Experience

[DavidC]

I have been keeping up with the dreaded surge problem people have been having over the years because I thought if it happened to me I would at least have a starting point. Drove the truck all week with no problems, Hooked the 5th wheel up Saturday to go to Payson AZ. Truck felt real strong with box set on 3 sub 4. Figured the cooler weather really helped. Felt a little bucking (Like a head wind) every once in a while. Started getting into the mountain areas and the truck was lurching fore and aft real bad. Checked all the instrumentation and everything OK. Fuel press. at 9 EGT OK, what the he** is going on?. While changing settings on the box (more aggressive just amplified the problem) I get a 253 (open in injection pump detected) code check engine light. I get to the campground and check the pump tap and re crimp. Clean the ground. Drive solo back to Tempe with no problems. Problem only seems to appear with a good load on the truck at about 1/2 throttle on. I get off work today and start checking MAP, IAT and various other connections. This truck since new would stumble every once in a while for no rhyme or reason. I looked down to the injection pump to find the harness that is shown in the book and find there is a push/pull locking device to keep the plug in the pump and it is pulled all the way out . Apparently it has been like this since new as no one has worked on the truck and I know I did not pull it. It took a little effort to lock back in and I am 99. 9% sure this was my intermittent stumble and real bad surge that occurred lately. It may be a good idea to check the plug on your pump even if you do not have these symptoms. I guess I will not know for sure until the end of the month when I pull the 5ver back down.



Dave

 

[Mundgyver]

Connectors being loose would be a good starting place. Make sure they are clean (corrosion free) and then use some good silicon grease to keep them from corroding.



Does the surging happen while driving without cruise control or with cruise control engage only or under both conditions?



Are you using a good fuel additive (for lubercation of the pump) on a somewhat regular basis?



If the surge is only happening while cruise control is engaged, I think I might have an answer for you.



One other thing to try is shut off the box and see if it occures without the box engaged.



We are trying to isolate the condition here. I got to get back to work and will check in later tonight.



Good luck.

 

[DavidC]

Mundgyver

Did not even try cruise the whole trip. The surge acted like full throttle and then defuel and not really any sequence noted. The theory of being fixed by locking the fuel pump plug is that I believe that hauling approx. 10K load on a steep grade produces vibration and harmonics that contributed to the loose connection. I turned the box off on one of the grades and the fore/aft surge was still there but not as noticeable with less fueling. I drove the truck tonight and maybe it is my imagination but it feels stronger than ever and I think the exhaust sound is a little deeper than what I have been accustomed to for the last 4 years. I hope it is fixed but as I said I will not be bringing the 5ver down from Payson until the end of the month. Without a good load on the back end the problem does not appear.



Dave

 

[Walker]

Where's the plug located?

More info. por favor.

 

[Mundgyver]

Just out of curosity, when was the last time you changed out a fuel filter?? And have you checked for the presence of water in the bottom of the fuel filter bowl??



Just trying to eliminate the simple stuff first.

 

[JTBMC]

I just had the same exact symptoms and problems for the second time. With out a load the truck runs fine no surging. However under load with or with out cruise the truck starts to buck at about 21 to 23 #'s of boost no matter if overdrive is or or if I'm in 3rd gear.

I checked all conections and even disconected the batteries for 30 mins. Pulled all conections and cleaned with Electric conection spray cleaner and re-installed new dielectrics grease,and reset the TPS.

It continued to surge pulling hills with the box on any level or sub level. With the box off with boost only she ran smooth, with out any surging. Just no power and no fun to drive.

After a lot of work and no results I called Edge and advised what was happining and what I had checked and they sent me a new Comp thinking it to be the problem.

Well I haven't had a chance to pull any hills yet to find out if it was the Comp for sure, and hope to this week end to do some test runs.

Edge is a first class operation in my book, Justin went over every thing with me and decided to warrant the Box not knowing for sure if it was the box or not. One thing for sure my truck runs a lot better and is more powerful with the new bow installed, and it will now lay out some black smoke where as before it would barely put out any smoke on any level or sub level.

TJ

 

[DavidC]

Mundgyver

Fuel Filter has 3K on it. Did not sample for water. Fuel press. was 9 post filter at about 1/2 throttle box on 3 sub 4.



Walker

Looking straight down near the back of the injection pump you will see a black plug above the injector tubes. On the drivers side of the plug there is a tee handle (vertical) made of plastic. Mine was fully extended and has a dimple that locks into position when pushed in to-wards pump.



tjlaffite

My first thought was the box, second was injection pump. Being a control electrician for the last 25 years I thought I would investigate every other source before calling Diesel Dynamics. In my field of work everything that goes wrong is blamed on controls. Sometimes it is and most times it is mechanical. I will wait and see what happens on the next tow. I did a search for surging and read a lot of the threads but there seemed to be no conclusion. Some changed boxes, some almost every sensor they could find,some injection pumps and others redoing every ground wire they could find. The strange part is that I do not remember the problem ever being fixed. After looking at all the different things that affect fueling and a 9 pin connector on the pump I figured that was a good place to start. I was thinking of removing the plug and cleaning/greasing the connection until I found it was not even locked in place. With the low voltages that go trough that system it would not take much to cause hiccups.





Dave

 

[Mundgyver]

Just out of curosity, how free wheeling is your turbo... No sticky spots that would cause it to slow then go, slow then go?? Wear being the culprit. Does it meet radial and axial play spec requirements. If the turbo were surging because of wear this would be a problem. Easy to check with a dial indicator. Food for thought.

 

[JTBMC]

Dave,

I just went out and looked at the VP pumps 9 pin connector on my truck and that rascal was popped up and I just cleaned greased and closed it up in Maryland 2 weeks ago. I re-attached the clasp and will see if there is any difference in performance.

I do believe in my case the Comp box was going south as I could only produce a very light cloud of grayish smoke before on level 3 sub 5 and now this thing is like a rocket, and I must take care in not suffocating other motorist.

TJ

 

[JTBMC]

Dave,

I just went out and looked at the VP pumps 9 pin connector on my truck and that rascal was popped up and I just cleaned greased and closed it up in Maryland 2 weeks ago. I re-attached the clasp and will see if there is any difference in performance.

I do believe in my case the Comp box was going south as I could only produce a very light cloud of grayish smoke before on level 3 sub 5 and now this thing is like a rocket, and I must take care in not suffocating other motorist.

TJ

 

[DavidC]

Mundgyver

I did take the intake hose off months ago and everything seemed OK although I did not put the dial indicator on it. When this was happening I did glance at the turbo press and I recall it was about 29. My fault that I did not observe it very often as I was realy keeping my eyes on the fuel press. that showed no apparent problem or noticeable fluctuation.



Dave

 

[DavidC]

tjlaffite

It is good that you found this early. Maybe these things work themselves loose on their own?. I guess I will have to keep an eye on this, and I was thinking it was Friday afternoon and Miller time on the assembly line . Glad the box works for you.



Dave

 

[Gary - K7GLD]

Dave - since another thread is now active in this surging issue, wonder if you have yet confirmed the loose LP plug as your particular problem - done any more towing yet?

 

[DavidC]

Gary - KJ6Q



It was the plug on the VP44 that was loose (clamp for harness was pulled out) . After fixing that plug on a recent tow the surging was gone but the DDUFM box seemed to have died during all of this also. The truck acted like stock power from 1/2 throttle to full throttle. Low end power felt like it was stuck on level 1. Disconnected the box and harness. Drove truck for a week. Everything seemed fine and had throttle response through out the pedal travel. I sent the box and harness back to Diesel Dynamics and received a replacement the same week. The truck appears to run fine now. One other item of interest with the loose plug and original box was that the truck appeared to have a constant miss at cruising speed (65-75). That symptom appears to be gone also. The truck has not set any codes since the initial surging experience. I guess my advice with a surge would be to first check the plug on the VP44 before getting to involved with MAP,IAT and APPS devices.



Dave

 

[Gary - K7GLD]

AH! I misread or misunderstood - I thought it was the LP plug that was loose - I'll have to check my VP-44 - don't remember seeing where it goes or what it plugs into...



Thanks for the response!