My Truck is "making" oil?????

[AH64ID]

FWIW my dad's 06 was using about that much oil, maybe a little more depending on the load, and it had 2 broken rings. For 30K miles the only indication was oil consumption.

 

[Alphonse]

Fairly standard statement from the major manufacturers. FCA is 1qt/2000 less than 50k, 1qt/750 over 50k.

From TSB 09-007-15 (it's much longer, only showing the specifications)
**MODELS: This bulletin applies to all 2012-2016 FCA US LLC vehicles equipped
with gasoline engines.**

Oil Consumption
**The accepted rate of oil consumption for engines used in the vehicles listed above is 1
quart (0.946 liter) in 2,000 miles (3,200 km) for the 1st 50,000 miles (80,467 km). For
vehicles with more then 50,000 miles (80,467 km) the acceptable oil consumption for
engines is 1 quart (0.946 liter) in 750 miles (1,207 km).**

As far as the Cummins, as a rule they do not use much if any oil between changes, but there is absolutely nothing wrong with one that uses a quart in 8k. If it was yours I guess you would want the engine torn down and the turbo replaced on a wild goose chase. I don't think so.

So Sag, since you picked this up, do you have something from Honda that says big oil consumption is normal. I was sincere in my request. I have never seen it and would like to if you can guide us to it.

 

[zetatre]

In my experience with BMW that has similar limits of 1qt every 1K miles it is all because of the extremely poorly designed close crankcase ventilation system that is often absent of any oil separator or in most instances has a pathetic cyclonic separator that looks like a Dyson vacuum cleaner.

My X5 with a 3 liter twin turbo diesel engine would go through 1 quart of oil every 6K miles. Oil consumption has stopped completely when I added a Mann-Hummel Provent 200 oil separator in the CCV line that drains the oil back in the crankcase through the dipstick tube.

The Provent 200 uses a "filter" similar to what Cummins uses. I quote filter because it is technically a coalescent separator that uses particular media that allows oil particles to coalesce in larger drops that eventually shed and drop of. It is basically a "self cleaning" filter if it wasn't for the long term presence of solids in the oil such as soot that could be left behind in the "filter" and clog it. That's why in the Cummins it's replaced every 67.5K miles.

The oil through the CCV system will have to be eventually addressed properly by engine manufacturers primarily because with direct injection you don't have gasoline cleaning valves which as a result get caked up with oil. Turbo chargers compound the problem since you have higher cylinder pressure and more blowby... But then you have an intercooler that often captures and traps said oil...

 

[SnoKing]

These little guys in my boat logged 2500 hours in 19 years. With the Walker Airseps I had no oil film in the bilge and engine went 100 hours between changes without adding any oil. SNOKING

#ad

 

[Cummins12V98]

Almost every car I get behind that is pouring out blue smoke is a HONDA, been that way for years.

 

[Alphonse]

Almost every car I get behind that is pouring out blue smoke is a HONDA, been that way for years.

Where do you live, Tijuana? I looked at your profile to see and it appears that it is a secret! Yeap, those Hondas go forever in Tijuana, even blowing blue smoke. :-laf

Seriously, still hoping folks can provide some definitive info on the Honda's specs they mentioned.

 

[sag2]

Sorry I don't have access to Honda info specifically but they have settled at least one class action suit for excessive consumption. I would still say they have to have a written guideline for the dealers to follow.

 

[EDankievitch]

All engines use oil. It's a fact of life. Most of the time the oil used is replaced by un-burnt fuel and soot. Oil it self does not break down it gets contaminated and the additives get used up. My oil use of almost a quart in 8k miles is not bad. figuring the engine will have roughly 230 hours on it at 8000 miles. We've got a few brand new CAT C9's in Gen service that will use a gal of oil in 50 hours. CAT says this is very normal.

 

[RustyJC]

Oil it self does not break down it gets contaminated and the additives get used up.

Myth. Base oil does degrade - that's why oil analysis labs measure viscosity, oxidation and nitration. An example of base stock breakdown is shearing of the long chain hydrocarbon molecules. That has nothing to do with contamination or depletion of the additive package.

Rusty

 

[Newsa]

Myth. Base oil does degrade - that's why oil analysis labs measure viscosity, oxidation and nitration. An example of base stock breakdown is shearing of the long chain hydrocarbon molecules. That has nothing to do with contamination or depletion of the additive package.

Rusty

Additives affect viscosity, & neutralize oxidation & nitrates.

 

[RustyJC]

I've spent 42 years working for an engine/compressor manufacturer, 35 of those in engineering and technical management roles. We work directly with the major oil companies and additive suppliers (Lubrizol, for example) to develop and evaluate the performance of lubricants in our equipment, so I've been at this awhile. Before you buy into the "hype", you might want to take a read of the following ARTICLE that covers some of the basic tribology behind lube oil degradation.

Rusty

 

[Newsa]

So oil can stay in the ground for hundreds of thousands of years at 100-190 degrees Farenheit. Yet, we have to worry about thermal degradation in 6 months? If your engine overheats, yes, the oil can "burn". And be relatively ineffective.

 

[AH64ID]

All engines use oil. It's a fact of life. Most of the time the oil used is replaced by un-burnt fuel and soot. Oil it self does not break down it gets contaminated and the additives get used up. My oil use of almost a quart in 8k miles is not bad. figuring the engine will have roughly 230 hours on it at 8000 miles. We've got a few brand new CAT C9's in Gen service that will use a gal of oil in 50 hours. CAT says this is very normal.

Yes all engine use oil but 1 qt is 8K miles or 230 hours is excessive, especially on a new engine. Ignoring it will probably prove a mistake down the road.

You can call it normal if you want, but it's anything but that.

Your engine, and your "normal".

 

[Newsa]

The dealer did my first 4 oil changes. And every time I got it back from the dealer service dept, it appeared slightly over filled.

I did my second ( dealer did 4, I did 2) oil change today. I was careful to fill it and then let it idle to pump the oil through the system and recheck the dipstick.
When I did my oil change in September 2015, I accidentally overfilled it.

This time I didn't trust the idle recheck. I left it near the add mark on the dipstick until I had a chance to run the engjne harder.

it appears that idling doesn't create enough suction to suck oil out of the filters. You have to load the engine and run it harder than idle to suck oil.

I ran drove it and noticed when I stopped, the oil sucked out of the filters made the oil level go to full.

 

[gsbrockman]

it appears that idling doesn't create enough suction to suck oil out of the filters. You have to load the engine and run it harder than idle to suck oil.

^^^^
What was the coolant temperature when you pulled the drain plug???

What amount of time did you wait between shut down and first checking the oil level after replacing the new oil???

 

[w6pea]

I've spent 42 years working for an engine/compressor manufacturer, 35 of those in engineering and technical management roles. We work directly with the major oil companies and additive suppliers (Lubrizol, for example) to develop and evaluate the performance of lubricants in our equipment, so I've been at this awhile. Before you buy into the "hype", you might want to take a read of the following ARTICLE that covers some of the basic tribology behind lube oil degradation.

Rusty

Rusty
Thank you for posting the link very interesting article and read.

 

[SnoKing]

^^^^
What was the coolant temperature when you pulled the drain plug???

What amount of time did you wait between shut down and first checking the oil level after replacing the new oil???

I am with you. Block temperature is in play and drain back is in play, not oil sucking out of the filter! SNOKING

 

[SnoKing]

^^^^
What was the coolant temperature when you pulled the drain plug???

What amount of time did you wait between shut down and first checking the oil level after replacing the new oil???

I am with you. Block temperature is in play and drain back is in play, not oil sucking out of the filter! SNOKING

 

[Newsa]

I did it cold both times. Wasn't concerned about a small amount of residual oil left in the engine.
Just focusing on adding the correct amount of oil so that the dipstick doesn't read over full.
Even when the dipstick read over full (when both the dealer changed the oil 4 timesl and I changed it last Sept.),
there was no frothing, so even though it was above the safe mark, it wasn't dangerously over full.

Since I'm running both a mopar full flow filter and an Amsoil bypass filter, I am not as concerned about having the debris in the oil circulating.
I change thd oil every 4,000-5,000 miles because I don't usually drive very long distances. Fuel dilution is my biggest concern.

I live in flat south florida, so I don't have to worry as much as sone who may regularly drive 12-15% grades and worry about whether their oil take up pipe in the oil pan might gulp some air.

The change took exactly 13 quarts of oil. Which is what I expect with (or maybe a tad more than what I expect) with the amsoil bypass filter.

13 quarts would be what I expect with the installed bypass filter (according to it's description, it increases sump quantity by one quart).
But since when I change the oil filters, they are always only about half full, 13 quarts is about 1/2 quart more than I expected it to take.

I used a 2.5 gallon Amsoil 15w/40 jug. And 3/4 of another gallon jug. That would be 10 qts + 3 qts.
But I didn't let the 2.5 gallon container drain for more than one minute after it was empty because I was tired of holding it up there on a windy day.
So the 2.5 gal jug might have had some residual left in it.

 

[Newsa]

I am with you. Block temperature is in play and drain back is in play, not oil sucking out of the filter! SNOKING

Am I the only one noticing the filters are only half full when changing? I have seen people comment on this on other threads.
Apparently, I chose to bring back a thread that was missing those comments.