Attention: TDR Forum Junkies First of all I would like to express my apologies for such a long post and thank those of you who take the time to read it in its entirety.
This project started a little over two years ago. I wanted to make some engine modifications to my truck that would give me increased power but still allow me to drive it back and fourth to work each day. Rick Harvey with the Diesel Bunch who I can call a good friend of mine began to brainstorm on a combination of parts that would accomplish what I was going for. Here is what he came up with.
1. F1 Helix II cam
2. F1 Mach 4 injectors
3. PDR Port, polished and 'O' ringed head & Piping Kit
4 HRVP44 injector pump
5. Twin turbo’s
6. TS performance NOS kit
7. Edge Juice w/ attitude
8. FASS w/ 1/2" steel braided lines and fittings
9. Amsoil remote system with -10 steel lines and fittings
10. New radiator
11. Twin 6" miter cut stacks
12. SBC Dual disk clutch
13. Custom built ladder bars
14. ARP head studs
So with the list in hand the parts purchase was on. I run a little manufacturing company located at the Southern end of the San Joaquin Valley in California. This company is run with me and one employee. I am completely hands on, on a day to day basis. 12-14 hour days are just a way of life. As extra money was available I purchased a part and shoved it under my daughter’s bed at home. I wanted to do this project right and have a truck that would last a very long long time and an engine compartment that would look good as well. The exhaust sides of both turbo’s and the exhaust manifold were Ceramic coated an Olive Green color to keep from rusting over time. Both compressor housings were polished and clear ceramic coated for longevity of looks. The Piping kit was powder coated red to match the valve cover.
The Ported, Polished O-ringed head was purchased from PDR in October 2006 and was kept in the same box it arrived to me in until it was time to install it which took place in August of 2007. In August of 2007 all of the pieces of the puzzle had been purchased and were handed over to Rick to begin the transformation. I told Rick to take his time on the install of all the parts. Four months later the truck was finished and was back at my house on Sunday, November 25, 2007. On Wednesday November 28, 2007 the Head gasket blew. Rick brought a flatbed trailer to my house and picked up the truck and trailered it back to his house on Saturday December 1, 2007.
The following are actual email transcripts between Rick Harvey and Mark Wilson of PDR.
From: Harvey, Rick [mailto:Rick. Harvey]
Sent: Tuesday, December 04, 2007 2:38 PM
To: 'mark. wilson@pdrdiesel.com'
Subject: Ported, Polished, O ringed Head
Hi Mark,
A little over year or so ago I ordered a ported, polished, O ringed head for a 24v. The customer was collecting parts a little at a time as money permitted. Finally a month ago that head was installed! We used ARP 12mm head studs, lubed and torque to 140lbs in sequence as it shows in the Cummins shop manual. Once the truck was brought up to operating temp I shut it down and let it set until it cooled complete. Marked the nut and backed it off and re-torque it. Doing this in the line torque method. Once this re-torque was done I drove the truck for a few days not getting the boost over 10-15 lbs when it had reached full operating temp. Then I repeated the above re-torque. Again a number of heat cycles…also not exceeding the 10-15lbs of boost when it was warm. Then another re-torque…more heat cycles and another re-torque. A total of 5 re-torques were done with a calibrated torque wrench. After the last retorque and nothing was gained…I sent the truck home. Even after all of this the truck owner drove another week before being a little aggressive with the truck. When I say a little aggressive…he did see over 48 lbs of boost. This truck is running a set of PDR towing twins with blow off valves set at 50lbs and the Edge box boost limit was set 50lbs of boost.
The morning that the customer got a little aggressive with the truck he called me and said that there was coolant and oil coming down over the bell housing, and there was oil in the coolant puke tank.
We pulled the head off this past weekend and found a couple of items of why the head gasket failed and where it failed.
#1. The #6 cylinder O ring has a gap between the ends of the ring. If you compare the gasket and the O ring gap it matches perfect.
#2. We checked the protrusion of the O ring and on #1 and #6 cylinder there is as much as 3-4k of difference. Measuring in 4 different locations at 3,6,9,12 O'clock we found that the 3 and 9 measurements were 3-4k more than the 6 and 12 measurements. All the cylinders were off but these 2 were the most.
I had two diesel hotrod shops look at it and both said that this amount of difference along with the O ring ends being apart is the cause of the failure.
Before the head was actually put on the truck…. the block was cleaned to make sure that the gasket would seal. The gasket used was one that was ordered from PDR.
I have attached a few pictures of the failure so that you can see what it did. As you can see there by the gasket pictures there are multi failures.
What the customer is looking for is a total refund for the head and what it’s going to take to get the truck back on the road. The reason is because the head came to us like this causing the failure. I did ask about a replacement head and he is already looking somewhere else for the replacement head.
If you need any other information or pictures let me know
Thanks
Rick Harvey
The Diesel Bunch Performance Diesel
From: Mark Wilson [mailto:mark. wilson@pdrdiesel.com]
Sent: Wednesday, December 05, 2007 7:53 AM
To: Harvey, Rick
Subject: RE: Ported, Polished,O ringed Head
Rick,
Your customers request for a refund is unjustified. The head has sat around for over 1 year and should have been checked prior to install as with time and differences in temperature, the 2 different metals expand and contract differently. If there was a problem with O-ring gap, than that should have been pointed out when product arrived over 1 year ago also. PDR can’t be responsible for product after 30 days from purchase.
You or your customer could have and still can, simply take a soft drift and hammer and re seat the wire O-rings. Simple as that.
P/S. that gasket has been run hard at a higher psi than quoted and the O-ring gap as been tampered with. I have seen a lot of blown head gaskets and I have never seen a gasket blow out that bad even at 80psi. Some one isn’t telling the truth?
From: Harvey, Rick [mailto:Rick. Harvey]
Sent: Wednesday, December 05, 2007 8:09 AM
To: 'Mark Wilson'
Subject: RE: Ported, Polished O ringed Head
Mark…
Sorry to disagree with you! The customer is totally in his right to ask for a complete refund for product that was not correctly machined. Parts sitting for a year WILL NOT change how a part was machined. Also when I order parts…am I expected to have a machine shop check PDR work? Since the head has been stored for that period of time and has not been used it would be like it was sitting on your shelf for a year. For that matter the head may not even be flat since in those pictures you can stil see the stamp marks of when it was cast.
And no it has not been run at higher boost levels because the Edge box was set at 50 lbs and the blow off valves were set by PDR when the kit was bought.
So what you saying is that what ever comes out of PDR machine shop is what you get? And when ALL items arrive I need to spend extra to have a machine shop double check you work…I don’t think so…
PDR needs to resolve this with the customer which would be the terms he asked for…
Thanks
Rick
This project started a little over two years ago. I wanted to make some engine modifications to my truck that would give me increased power but still allow me to drive it back and fourth to work each day. Rick Harvey with the Diesel Bunch who I can call a good friend of mine began to brainstorm on a combination of parts that would accomplish what I was going for. Here is what he came up with.
1. F1 Helix II cam
2. F1 Mach 4 injectors
3. PDR Port, polished and 'O' ringed head & Piping Kit
4 HRVP44 injector pump
5. Twin turbo’s
6. TS performance NOS kit
7. Edge Juice w/ attitude
8. FASS w/ 1/2" steel braided lines and fittings
9. Amsoil remote system with -10 steel lines and fittings
10. New radiator
11. Twin 6" miter cut stacks
12. SBC Dual disk clutch
13. Custom built ladder bars
14. ARP head studs
So with the list in hand the parts purchase was on. I run a little manufacturing company located at the Southern end of the San Joaquin Valley in California. This company is run with me and one employee. I am completely hands on, on a day to day basis. 12-14 hour days are just a way of life. As extra money was available I purchased a part and shoved it under my daughter’s bed at home. I wanted to do this project right and have a truck that would last a very long long time and an engine compartment that would look good as well. The exhaust sides of both turbo’s and the exhaust manifold were Ceramic coated an Olive Green color to keep from rusting over time. Both compressor housings were polished and clear ceramic coated for longevity of looks. The Piping kit was powder coated red to match the valve cover.
The Ported, Polished O-ringed head was purchased from PDR in October 2006 and was kept in the same box it arrived to me in until it was time to install it which took place in August of 2007. In August of 2007 all of the pieces of the puzzle had been purchased and were handed over to Rick to begin the transformation. I told Rick to take his time on the install of all the parts. Four months later the truck was finished and was back at my house on Sunday, November 25, 2007. On Wednesday November 28, 2007 the Head gasket blew. Rick brought a flatbed trailer to my house and picked up the truck and trailered it back to his house on Saturday December 1, 2007.
The following are actual email transcripts between Rick Harvey and Mark Wilson of PDR.
From: Harvey, Rick [mailto:Rick. Harvey]
Sent: Tuesday, December 04, 2007 2:38 PM
To: 'mark. wilson@pdrdiesel.com'
Subject: Ported, Polished, O ringed Head
Hi Mark,
A little over year or so ago I ordered a ported, polished, O ringed head for a 24v. The customer was collecting parts a little at a time as money permitted. Finally a month ago that head was installed! We used ARP 12mm head studs, lubed and torque to 140lbs in sequence as it shows in the Cummins shop manual. Once the truck was brought up to operating temp I shut it down and let it set until it cooled complete. Marked the nut and backed it off and re-torque it. Doing this in the line torque method. Once this re-torque was done I drove the truck for a few days not getting the boost over 10-15 lbs when it had reached full operating temp. Then I repeated the above re-torque. Again a number of heat cycles…also not exceeding the 10-15lbs of boost when it was warm. Then another re-torque…more heat cycles and another re-torque. A total of 5 re-torques were done with a calibrated torque wrench. After the last retorque and nothing was gained…I sent the truck home. Even after all of this the truck owner drove another week before being a little aggressive with the truck. When I say a little aggressive…he did see over 48 lbs of boost. This truck is running a set of PDR towing twins with blow off valves set at 50lbs and the Edge box boost limit was set 50lbs of boost.
The morning that the customer got a little aggressive with the truck he called me and said that there was coolant and oil coming down over the bell housing, and there was oil in the coolant puke tank.
We pulled the head off this past weekend and found a couple of items of why the head gasket failed and where it failed.
#1. The #6 cylinder O ring has a gap between the ends of the ring. If you compare the gasket and the O ring gap it matches perfect.
#2. We checked the protrusion of the O ring and on #1 and #6 cylinder there is as much as 3-4k of difference. Measuring in 4 different locations at 3,6,9,12 O'clock we found that the 3 and 9 measurements were 3-4k more than the 6 and 12 measurements. All the cylinders were off but these 2 were the most.
I had two diesel hotrod shops look at it and both said that this amount of difference along with the O ring ends being apart is the cause of the failure.
Before the head was actually put on the truck…. the block was cleaned to make sure that the gasket would seal. The gasket used was one that was ordered from PDR.
I have attached a few pictures of the failure so that you can see what it did. As you can see there by the gasket pictures there are multi failures.
What the customer is looking for is a total refund for the head and what it’s going to take to get the truck back on the road. The reason is because the head came to us like this causing the failure. I did ask about a replacement head and he is already looking somewhere else for the replacement head.
If you need any other information or pictures let me know
Thanks
Rick Harvey
The Diesel Bunch Performance Diesel
From: Mark Wilson [mailto:mark. wilson@pdrdiesel.com]
Sent: Wednesday, December 05, 2007 7:53 AM
To: Harvey, Rick
Subject: RE: Ported, Polished,O ringed Head
Rick,
Your customers request for a refund is unjustified. The head has sat around for over 1 year and should have been checked prior to install as with time and differences in temperature, the 2 different metals expand and contract differently. If there was a problem with O-ring gap, than that should have been pointed out when product arrived over 1 year ago also. PDR can’t be responsible for product after 30 days from purchase.
You or your customer could have and still can, simply take a soft drift and hammer and re seat the wire O-rings. Simple as that.
P/S. that gasket has been run hard at a higher psi than quoted and the O-ring gap as been tampered with. I have seen a lot of blown head gaskets and I have never seen a gasket blow out that bad even at 80psi. Some one isn’t telling the truth?
From: Harvey, Rick [mailto:Rick. Harvey]
Sent: Wednesday, December 05, 2007 8:09 AM
To: 'Mark Wilson'
Subject: RE: Ported, Polished O ringed Head
Mark…
Sorry to disagree with you! The customer is totally in his right to ask for a complete refund for product that was not correctly machined. Parts sitting for a year WILL NOT change how a part was machined. Also when I order parts…am I expected to have a machine shop check PDR work? Since the head has been stored for that period of time and has not been used it would be like it was sitting on your shelf for a year. For that matter the head may not even be flat since in those pictures you can stil see the stamp marks of when it was cast.
And no it has not been run at higher boost levels because the Edge box was set at 50 lbs and the blow off valves were set by PDR when the kit was bought.
So what you saying is that what ever comes out of PDR machine shop is what you get? And when ALL items arrive I need to spend extra to have a machine shop double check you work…I don’t think so…
PDR needs to resolve this with the customer which would be the terms he asked for…
Thanks
Rick
