Natural Stone Pavers

[BIGNASTY]

Anyone from a Northern state where snow comes and goes and then freezes use Natural stone pavers? Was looking at an idea of using the pavers for a walkway to a stone pad with Pergola or Gazebo. Pro's and Cons of such a plan would be nice, along with the install ideas to keep pavers from heaving in winter resulting in rebuilding the path and pad each year.

BIG

 

[Deleted member 995608]

Well I sure hope we get before and after pics Big. Nothing worse than seeing the after pics without seeing the before pics.

 

[KHellewell]

Big
In the city I work for we use them in our downtown area around the trees, we found a good 6 inches of compacted road base keeps them pretty level untill the tree roots decide to show up
they are also used for small walkways in some parks
the better the base the longer they last

 

[RUSSELL5000]

We have lots of frost heave around us as lost of moisture and extended periods below freezing. As pointed out, the better the base the longer they last.

I have done the pavers in the yard. When all is said and done, after building a good base, etc., would rather do concrete. Less future work. In addition, can stain and stamp the concrete.

 

[BIGNASTY]

We have a few areas of pavers in town although they are covered and generally don't have snow accumulated on them or for that matter get much if any water runoff from buildings to speak of. It cost me a sandwich and a beer to have a talk to the City worker that laid them. His plan was pretty straight forward do it the way he did it in town and at his home or you'll be rebuilding the " Yellow brick road each year"

He dug out the path & slab to a depth of at least 6" + the thickness of your pavers. Then use Geotextile Fabric over the natural ground this will stabilize the rest of the base products from sinking into the earth and creating an uneven base and the resulting pavers becoming heaved or low in spots were the base had been basically washed out, the fabric prevents this from happening. It allows water to seep threw but not the base material. From there in the diagram that is posted its pretty straight forward. The base he used 3/4 in crushed rock with rock fines in two lifts, the reason for the 2 lifts (layers) was to lay a 3" layer and use a vibratory compactor to compact each layer. If it was tried to be done in 1- 6" compact the base wouldn't be as tightly compacted as two. (sounded good to me). He suggested another 1" layer of extra fine sand to be laid over the crushed rock base. His idea is one that I had seen in So Calif take two 1" PVC pipes and lay them on top of the base lay the sand over the pipes and base then use a 2x4 as a scree board to make perfectly level base to lay the pavers on pull the PVC pipe before laying the pavers and continue to the end of the walk or slab. When done run the compactor over the pavers and then use polymeric sand spread over the walk or slab and use a push broom to sweep this product into the cracks between the pavers ( very well ) then a light mist of water a couple times for a day, this Polymeric Sand acts like a Tile Grout and will shed water. He used this system on his homes walkways and driveway 5 or 6 years ago and it looks like it was done yesterday. Its amazing what a sandwich and a beer will get ya

BIG

 

[fest3er]

The most important things are a well compacted base and good drainage. If you can encourage water to drain away from the pad/walk, you won't have ice form below. So watch for low spots where water might pool, even adjacent to the walk/pad.

 

[RUSSELL5000]

The diagram above is how I did my back patio; it only lasted about five years - took it out the fall of year six.

(1) I was too flat - no fall at all - water pooled on the patio.

(2) Moss grew in between the pavers and weeds took root in between the pavers.

(3) I used treated board for edge and stakes. I did not get the right specification (did not understand), the board rotted, edges sank, edge stones became uneven. I think there are far superior materials to use for edging and stakes now.

(4) Tree roots from locust tree lifted and made areas uneven; water pooled, frost heave made more uneven.

I took the pavers out, cut the roots from the locust tree back and tore them out, smoothed the base out, and poured a concrete patio. The patio has fall on it so that water runs off right away. I used quite a few 1/2" rebar on the side next to the locust tree. I pressure wash in the spring and paint sealer on in the fall; about an hour in the spring and an hour in the fall. Twelve years old now and still fine.

My paver patio may have lasted longer if I had not made the mistakes above.

I saw someone set paver stones in concrete. A few years later the pavers were all loose and concrete between the pavers all cracked and busted out. Not sure exactly how he did it, but did not work well.

The entrance to my building at work has beautiful granite stone outside. Every year a crew lifts a bunch of the stone, works on the base, and resets. The area is flat and there is all kinds of salt and water all winter. It looks great but sure is a lot of maintenance.

 

[BIGNASTY]

This morning I brought out a Transit Level and shot a line between the start of the walk (House) to the Gazebo pad location in the distance of 80' ft the ground undulation would cause some problems. The water run off from around the house would be to great I think, When I built the house I intentionally graded the land to direct run off AWAY from the home with Drains surrounding the foundation and ran in the direction of the back 40 to prevent water build up along side the foundation. Gazebo location could work from the standpoint that its location is on a small rise in the ground level. To re-grade land to accommodate this project would be a monumental undertaking. Another option that was suggested is to lay flag stones spaced wide enough to let the grass grow between thus letting the water soak into the ground, if they did in fact heave do to inclement weather, resetting a stone or 5 wouldn't be a big a project as a solid stone path. We do have many paths in our city park with this type of path configuration that have lasted for many many years of weather here. This photo sort of kind of gives an idea. The Pad for the Gazebo has been looked at as a raised deck sort of thing, I really don't want to have to fiddle dick around with raise pavers continuously every year. I have to many other things to be tending to such as drinking beer, eating and don't need to fall and ruin a good drunk with raised pavers being the primary cause of a fall

 

[RUSSELL5000]

I like the path in your picture. I am working on something similar around the side of my house. Over time I have learned to think of the work involved in caring for something after the initial construction instead of solely the initial construction - tends to accumulate (to say the least.....)

 

[fest3er]

Runoff isn't so much of a problem as long as it keeps running off. You could probably put in some drain tile downslope from the low points in the walkway, enough to make sure that water doesn't stay on or under the walkway.

I suppose an alternative would be to put down 3" gravel for drainage, 10' of 4" drain tile in the low spots leading away, 3" asphalt to provide a solid base, and 3" sand as the base for the stones. If you ensure that water can't pool, it should remain dry below when it counts (when the ground freezes and when it thaws).

The last thing to consider: how far down does your ground freeze in winter? This depth also has a bearing on anti-heave methods.

Picture in your mind what it would take to encourage water to leave the walkway (drainage tile, gravel channels, et alia). Then decide if it's worth the effort.