Navistar & epa fines

[DBithell]

Thought this interesting. EPA ruled that Navistar can continue selling non-compliant engines if pays a fine of up to $3,775 (maximum) per engine. That's 2x what they were paying.

 

[mwilson]

They are burning up credits created by other engine companies producing a compliant engine.



No shame in that, Cat did it for quite a while back along.



Navistar does need to get their thumb out of their a** as Daimler is gaining market share by the hour.....



Mike.

 

[MLee]

Isn't Navistar selling the MaxForce engine? I read a over a year ago the Cat was to make this engine and have Navistar sell it, move it under there name, Thus getting back in the OTR business, via a different out source, as the Navistar.

 

[mwilson]

I believe that is the case, the trouble is the CAT ACERT could not be cleaned up enough to pass. It was a twin turbo disaster with a lot of warranty claims.



Navistar (using the same line of thinking as the 6. 0 and 6. 4L engines) figured that they know more than anybody else.



So rather than persue the DPF / SCS way of doing things (As Daimler did with DD13 and DD15 engines) Navistar banked on having re-labeled CAT ACERT and an over-EGR'd Cummins engine as current offerings. Not a good idea.



That is a very rough (and may not be 100% correct) overview but shows the basic idea. Taking the non SCR / DPF route has cost them heavily.

They also chose to open the Lisle, Ill. facility and move the engineers from Fort Wayne, Ind.

Guess what?? A lot of them retired out rather than move.



Daimler did the same dumb stunt several years back when corporate moved from Portland, Oregon to Fort Mill, SC. A lot of experienced help would not go. Daimler is still recovering from that as well.



The commonality here is that is Jim Hebe was behind both moves, after Daimler canned his *** he went to Navistar. Do you see a pattern here... .....



Mike.

 

[Jim W]

I believe that is the case, the trouble is the CAT ACERT could not be cleaned up enough to pass. It was a twin turbo disaster with a lot of warranty claims.

Navistar (using the same line of thinking as the 6. 0 and 6. 4L engines) figured that they know more than anybody else.

So rather than persue the DPF / SCS way of doing things (As Daimler did with DD13 and DD15 engines) Navistar banked on having re-labeled CAT ACERT and an over-EGR'd Cummins engine as current offerings. Not a good idea.

That is a very rough (and may not be 100% correct) overview but shows the basic idea. Taking the non SCR / DPF route has cost them heavily.
They also chose to open the Lisle, Ill. facility and move the engineers from Fort Wayne, Ind.
Guess what?? A lot of them retired out rather than move.

Daimler did the same dumb stunt several years back when corporate moved from Portland, Oregon to Fort Mill, SC. A lot of experienced help would not go. Daimler is still recovering from that as well.

The commonality here is that is Jim Hebe was behind both moves, after Daimler canned his *** he went to Navistar. Do you see a pattern here... .....

Mike.

That what happens to companies when engineers do not run the corporations and instead are being run by marketing/accounting types. Marketing and accounts both believe an engineer is a commodity and this can be learned from just reading a book with no experience being required. I use to run into this all of the time when I worked at Caterpillar. I had some serious discussion on XT-3, XT-5 and XT-6 hose material back in the 90's, almost got fired over that once. But I had a product manager who was a former engineer who backed me up.
Jim W.

 

[BIGNASTY]

That what happens to companies when engineers do not run the corporations and instead are being run by marketing/accounting types. Marketing and accounts both believe an engineer is a commodity and this can be learned from just reading a book with no experience being required. I use to run into this all of the time when I worked at Caterpillar. I had some serious discussion on XT-3, XT-5 and XT-6 hose material back in the 90’s, almost got fired over that once. But I had a product manager who was a former engineer who backed me up.

Jim W.

I know full well im going to have my A** handed to me on this one but I dont care. You can take all the book smart educated morons and put them in one box shake it up and you STILL COME OUT WITH educated morons. No one asks the guy that is turning the wrench and working with the crap designs that they are forced to fix with crap that shouldn't have been used in the first place when the I TRIED TO BY-PASS THE CUSSING FILTER was produced. The choice was made for GREED simple as that ,and some weenie that thinks his educated ignorance is going to save the world and set the industry they work in on fire. Take the paper and slide rule away from them and they

 

[mwilson]

I know full well im going to have my A** handed to me on this one but I dont care. You can take all the book smart educated morons and put them in one box shake it up and you STILL COME OUT WITH educated morons. No one asks the guy that is turning the wrench and working with the crap designs that they are forced to fix with crap that shouldn't have been used in the first place when the I TRIED TO BY-PASS THE CUSSING FILTER was produced. The choice was made for GREED simple as that ,and some weenie that thinks his educated ignorance is going to save the world and set the industry they work in on fire. Take the paper and slide rule away from them and they

In the defense of the Navistar engineers I have found a few sites where they had tried to tell Navistar management what was going to happen if the money was on an EGR based system but it fell on deaf ears.



Between that and the corporate move it could be a crippling blow for old Navistar.



Mike.

 

[DBithell]

In the defense of the Navistar engineers I have found a few sites where they had tried to tell Navistar management what was going to happen if the money was on an EGR based system but it fell on deaf ears.

Between that and the corporate move it could be a crippling blow for old Navistar.

Mike.

correct. navistar is a good example of egr problems. unfortunate for me, my '08 6. 7 came with one.