NC HP decision on my $590.00 fine

[HBarlow]

Most of the states that are requiring an 'A' license are requiring it for a GVW of 26,001 pounds or a trailer grossing 10,000 pounds or more. In Texas and other states an 'A' license is NOT a CDL, but allows operator to drive RV's and other non commercial vehicles.

Denny,

That's not correct. The operative word in that phrase is "and" not "or. "

If your actual or rated gross combined weight is in excess of 26,000 lbs. AND you are towing a trailer with actual or rated weight of in excess of 10k lbs. you are required to have one of the two types of class A licenses.

A Class A operator's license is for private non-commercial RV haulers. A Class A CDL (Commercial Driver's License) is required for commercial hauling of the same weights.

Exceeding 26k without the heavy trailer requires a class B license type license. That would apply to RVers driving a motorhome.

 

[GaryOwen]

From page 13 NC Driver Handbook -



Regular Lisences



Class A - Required to operate any combination of vehicles exempt from CDL requirements with a gross vehicle weight rating (GVWR) of 26,001 pounds or more, provided the GVWR of the vehicle(s) being towed is greater than 10,000 pounds.



+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++



So it is neither AND or OR, it is PROVIDED. So PROVIDED your trailer is over 10k pounds AND your combined GVWR is over 26k pounds you will need a REGULAR Class A DL in NC. Otherwise a Class C regular lisence is all you need.

 

[CDonaldson]

Here in New Mexico we have a non-commercial license its called a 'Class E'. It covers exempt vehicles in excess of 26,001 lb and towing exempt vehicles over 10K.



I got stopped in a DOT check in Iowa, they added the registration weights I had paid for in my registration fees, told me as long as I didn't exceed the sum total of the two, I was legal going down the highway on any road that had fed money spent on it.



Since all states get some matching fed money to build state roads, even to build gravel ones, I figure I'm legal everywhere as long as I don't exceed my registration weights.





CD

 

[GAmes]

Page #13, OR TRAILER WITH GVW OVER 10K. CLASS A NEEDED. FOR NC.

GaryOwen said it better than I have been able to convey.

Like I said, if pulling a trailer over 10,000 GVWR required a class A you would have got a ticket for improper license and would not been allowed to pull the trailer away yourself. You were allowed to drive away because it is not a safety issue to not pay the weight tax on your tags. Here in TX to get a class A you have to take a driving test with a qualifying truck and trailer. Go by DMV and check to see if you can get a class A license while driving your pickup with a 11,000 GVWR trailer hooked to it.

 

[HBarlow]

From page 13 NC Driver Handbook -

Regular Lisences

Class A - Required to operate any combination of vehicles exempt from CDL requirements with a gross vehicle weight rating (GVWR) of 26,001 pounds or more, provided the GVWR of the vehicle(s) being towed is greater than 10,000 pounds.

+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

So it is neither AND or OR, it is PROVIDED. So PROVIDED your trailer is over 10k pounds AND your combined GVWR is over 26k pounds you will need a REGULAR Class A DL in NC. Otherwise a Class C regular lisence is all you need.

Gary,

If you had posted the quote from the lawbook and stopped you would have scored a perfect 100% and helped clarify the issue.

When you added the comment about it being neither and or or you went astray but we are now discussing English grammar, not DOT rules.

Of course the operative word was and is AND. How can a trailer move down the road by itself?

When you are driving a truck AND pulling a trailer with a gvwr exceeding 10k lbs. and the combination actual or rated weight exceeds 26k lbs. you are required to have a Class A license.

 

[steved]

I have my CDL A, so I have no dog in this fight... and PA registers the truck and trailer independently (based on the GVWs listed on the title).

Simple fact is, CUMMINZ needs to do whatever his state requires to "legally" tow his trailer so this doesn't happen (to him) again. If you really looked hard at all the vehicles towing in NC, I'll bet most are in the same position as CUMMINZ, and (unlike CUMMINZ) don't know they are one stop away from a $590 ticket. Unfortunately, CUMMINZ was "it" that particular day. Think about that SUV towing the trailer of ATVs the next time your out... passed by one of those in NC last week and thought of this thread.

I also said "legally", because he was within his safe operating limits IIRC. It is nothing more than $$, and the government doesn't like being cheated.

 

[GaryOwen]

Sorry if I muddled my post Harvey, but I think we are in agreement over the requirements. The point I was trying to make was that NC uses the word PROVIDED instead of AND in the driver handbook. The wording of each state seems to be somewhat different, and is not always easily interpreted.

 

[HBarlow]

Sorry if I muddled my post Harvey, but I think we are in agreement over the requirements. The point I was trying to make was that NC uses the word PROVIDED instead of AND in the driver handbook. The wording of each state seems to be somewhat different, and is not always easily interpreted.

We are in complete agreement. I knew you had the law down right it was simply a matter of wording.

 

[CUMMINZ]

i spoke to Master dude at HP station yesterday. He said rules changed last year.



If you are at least 18 and drive truck and trailer with gvw 26k and less you only need standard issue class C license.

 

[steved]

So YOU as an operator are legal, your truck just didn't have the correct registration??

 

[CUMMINZ]

Legal with class C for hauling my RV but not legal for hauling the load of cross ties because the load weighed 19,000#s with 10,000# tag on my truck. Master dude with HP did say I need to protest in writing and request a hearing on getting the ticket since I don't normally haul loads on a utility trailer.

 

[steved]

Legal with class C for hauling my RV but not legal for hauling the load of cross ties because the load weighed 19,000#s with 10,000# tag on my truck. Master dude with HP did say I need to protest in writing and request a hearing on getting the ticket since I don't normally haul loads on a utility trailer.

But if the truck was licensed at say, 20k; then you would have been fine even with a Class C if I'm reading that correctly?



Its obvious to be a matter of money to the State, not safety, considering you were still within the "recommended" GCVW rating for your truck with a trailer (as in a number you can show someone).

 

[sabersix]

Legal with class C for hauling my RV but not legal for hauling the load of cross ties because the load weighed 19,000#s with 10,000# tag on my truck. Master dude with HP did say I need to protest in writing and request a hearing on getting the ticket since I don't normally haul loads on a utility trailer.

Aren't the truck and trailer registered separately?



Why should you have to register your truck for the weight of the trailer?



Seems you should have registered the truck for 10,500 (or whatever your truck's GVWR) and the trailer for 10,000 (the trailer's GVWR). The pin weight of the trailer is carried by the truck, but should not exceed the 10,500 GVWR of your truck. Your registered GCWR is then 20,500.



What am I missing here? Does NC require you to register your truck for the full COMBINED weight of your truck plus trailer? That just seems wrong.

 

[d6c]

Very interesting thread, obviously a lot of confusion on this subject.

Seems to me that if you talk to your state DMV and research the rules and regulations you should be able to determine what is in the realm of possibility.

In Oregon, for instance, I have a Farm-plated vehicle that allows me to tow a permanent-plated trailer(required if above 8kgvw). Specific restrictions do apply to the use of that vehicle even when it is not towing.

 

[MMeier]

Aren't the truck and trailer registered separately?



Why should you have to register your truck for the weight of the trailer?



Seems you should have registered the truck for 10,500 (or whatever your truck's GVWR) and the trailer for 10,000 (the trailer's GVWR). The pin weight of the trailer is carried by the truck, but should not exceed the 10,500 GVWR of your truck. Your registered GCWR is then 20,500.



What am I missing here? Does NC require you to register your truck for the full COMBINED weight of your truck plus trailer? That just seems wrong.

Most states register trailers based on valuation, not weight. Therefore, you register the power unit (truck) for all the weight it may see at any given time. Like when I had my operation going with a 40' GN behind the '03... . truck was registered at 34,400 # GCVWR of the daully (12,000) and the trailer (22,400). Trailer registration had a "0" under weight on it, cab card for the dually was 34,400. Still have to watch individual tire/axle weights on everything though.

 

[d6c]

Some of the aforementioned confusion is the difference between commercial and personal use. A real problem in Oregon is personal-use horse trailers that are manufacture-tagged above 8klb. They are required to be permanent-plated and shall not be towed by a standard-plated vehicle. Lots of horse people are learning this the hard way. Crossing state lines is a whole subject in itself, you probably will need a trip permit at least.

 

[steved]

Most states register trailers based on valuation, not weight. Therefore, you register the power unit (truck) for all the weight it may see at any given time. Like when I had my operation going with a 40' GN behind the '03... . truck was registered at 34,400 # GCVWR of the daully (12,000) and the trailer (22,400). Trailer registration had a "0" under weight on it, cab card for the dually was 34,400. Still have to watch individual tire/axle weights on everything though.

Most register each separately... Pennsylvania in my case, the truck is registered at 9,000 pounds and my trailer is registered at 10,000 pounds,or a total GCVW of 19,000 pounds. The registered weights are based off titled weights.



Other states don't even register trailers... nor require lights, license, etc. (New Mexico comes to mind) As long as it tows, its legit.



In CUMMINZs' case, I would wonder how that would have played out if that had been a "rented" trailer... like a UHAUL?? Think about the SUVs you see cruising the highway with a UHAUL at 80mph... they probably don't even have a "weight rating" placed on the registration...

 

[MMeier]

Very interesting thread, obviously a lot of confusion on this subject.

Seems to me that if you talk to your state DMV and research the rules and regulations you should be able to determine what is in the realm of possibility.

In Oregon, for instance, I have a Farm-plated vehicle that allows me to tow a permanent-plated trailer(required if above 8kgvw). Specific restrictions do apply to the use of that vehicle even when it is not towing.

Around here DMV is clueless. Even when you talk to HP/ DOT you will get a different interpretation of the rules/ laws. :-{}

 

[sabersix]

Most states register trailers based on valuation, not weight. Therefore, you register the power unit (truck) for all the weight it may see at any given time. Like when I had my operation going with a 40' GN behind the '03... . truck was registered at 34,400 # GCVWR of the daully (12,000) and the trailer (22,400). Trailer registration had a "0" under weight on it, cab card for the dually was 34,400. Still have to watch individual tire/axle weights on everything though.

OK, this is what I did not understand as my state doesn't do it this way.



Seems like this type of registration process makes it extremely difficult to accurately register the correct weight. In the OP's case, how would he know that he would be towing that much weight? It wasn't even his trailer. It was rented for a one-time haul. So to be legal, he would have to look into his crystal ball and see he would have a need to haul a 9000 lb trailer and pay for the added weight now whether he ever pulled that load or not. Or, register the normal weight of the truck and hope he doesn't get caught.



Doh! Sounds like a money making scheme to me. Paying both ways!

 

[HBarlow]

Texas and other states register trucks and trailers according to the GVWR if the owner is knowledgeable and planning to haul heavy loads. It is possible to simply register a truck at dry shipping weight plus 1000 lbs. for a "half ton", 2000 lbs. for a "one ton" and the trailer at shipping or dry weight but if you get caught hauling a load with either the truck alone or the truck and trailer combo and you haven't registered it for that weight (paid taxes for that weight) it is probably ticket time just like in Cumminz's case.

Registration and taxing are state issues determined only by state legislatures and vary from state to state.

It is usually advisable to visit your local DMV and speak to a supervisory officer (Sargeant, Lieutenant, Captain) in the commercial trucking section if your state has such or obtain a copy of your state's commercial driver's handbook.

Texas has a separate division within the Department of Public Safety for commercial truck enforcement. Most states have similar division of enforcement. They are the ones who are knowledgeable. County Court House clerks where vehicles are registered usually know less than TDR members and ordinary highway patrol/state police officers are often not very well informed either.