Need Help! Anyone know about the other C motor???'s

[whathill]

Hi again everyone,



This is gonna be long, don't know how to make it any shorter! Don't post a lot, but do read a lot! Great help and info out here with great people!



Cause Dodge waited too long, I had to buy a bigger truck to pull our 38' 20k trailer. This is way too hard even for the great (92 & 01) Dodge's! Found a 93 Kodiak toterhome. It was well taken care of and got it's oil changed every 5k! It has the 3116/275 Cat 9 spd 4:10's. Great for us, stay at our shows and no more motels! Ran great and got 10. 8 mpg.



The problem we're having is the engine. It lost it's coolant out the over flow (never did get hot) and was smoking the dreaded whitish/blue out the exhaust when I shut it off!



To back up, this all started with the truck smoking (black) more than normal for a mechanical eng. Took it to Cat and they said we needed basically a major tune up! Well, after the tune up, injs. over head ran, new cam(found a bad follower), and $8000k later we got it back. They put it on the Dyno and it pulled 238hp at the wheels which is great (they said) for that eng.



To make this very long post shorter, the truck is back at Cat now (by the big hook from Phoenix to San Bernardino) with a possible blown head gasket, inj. seat, and or bad inj, cracked head, etc,etc,etc. The truck only has 190k on it, and shoot my 5. 9's have well over that and their running strong! They said that's about it for these engs. I fine that hard to believe!



What I'm looking for is a sense of direction. They want $12k for a reman eng. plus install. To me, that's a lot of money for a life of 200k? So, I was wondering,(and boy can that get ya in trouble) would a 8. 3 Cummins (if I do in fact need another motor, they don't know yet, they haven't pulled the head yet) be a better choice, or?



If your still reading, and I THANK YOU, I would highly appreciate a reply. Went out to Diesel eng. trader. com/Diesel talk/ Cat/post 3116 nightmare, and haven't got a reply yet! Over here I have always had someone reply even if they only had suggestions! This is the best mag/form out there, PERIOD!



If anyone out there knows Cats, I would love to have them help us (the Wife and I), to help solve this problem. The only thing that could be on our side is that a injector hung open over fueled the cylinder and cracked the seat! That way it's under warranty!





Thank You Again For Your Time,

This was a very long post,

Dennis

 

[Cummins Cowboy]

I don't have any experience however I have heard a lot of negative stories on cats smaller motors, cummins rules in the smaller motor class.

 

[whathill]

Thanks for the QUICK reply Cowboy. If you do know anybody that can help us, Please send them our way!



Thanks Again,

Dennis

 

[JGamble]

just shooting ideas, International? they may be able to help. i dont see why a 8. 3 wouldnt fit... ... unless the obvious, size, is a problem. I would call your local Cummins shop and talk to a rep there..... I am pretty sure they have seen or heard of almost anything.....

 

[whathill]

Thanks for the quick reply Cowboy, If ya do know somebody that can help us out, Please send them our way!



Thanks Again,

Dennis

 

[whathill]

Those are some good ideas. When we were looking for toters, not one person said they had any problems with their Cats! Found some people saying their 8. 3's were a little gutt less but other than that, nothing! I've got a friend that has the same eng we have, and his has been 388k mi's trouble free!



Anyway, we'll let you know how this progresses!





Thanks for the help!

 

[HBarlow]

Dennis,

I'm sorry for your tough situation.

Your primary question seems to be a request for advice because you said you're looking for direction. So here goes.

I don't know anything specific about the CAT engines or, for that matter, the ISC Cummins 8. 3s but I would guess that a normal service life for the small CAT in your truck would be longer than your experience.

As an uninvolved bystander, ie no money invested or at risk, I would first ask, "is it a good truck that is adequate for your needs and do you wish to keep it?" If the answers are "yes" to both questions I'd say you need an engine.

My personal experiences and natural skepticism would have led me away from a shop rebuild and to a factory rebuild. Unfortunately whether your original decision was a good or bad one, your current engine seems to be junk. If it were me I would consider the current CAT engine bad luck or a bad choice and move on.

That decision leads to the next question. Which solution would be the least expensive and most satisfying? You put two choices on the table: a factory rebuilt (with warranty) Cat engine or a complete repower with a Cummins ISC. I don't know but would guess the Cummins changeover might end up being more expensive because you'd have to pay for a lot of additional parts and labor to make the conversion.

I think I would try to get some help from either the shop that did the failed rebuild or CAT and spend the money for a factory rebuilt CAT replacement engine.

Good luck.

 

[RShipp]

The 3116 and 3126B Cat engines are horrible. You are lucky you got 160k out of the thing. They have injector problems, cam issues, and head gasket failures. All while only delivering 270hp. The 8. 3 Cummins is a great engine. The only thing you need to avoid is the CAPS fuel system that was offered on the 2000-2002 engines. The P-pumped engines and the Common Rails are good. The CAPS is like the VP44s of the B series. If you are buying a new engine, Cummins also offers the L9. This is a 9 liter engine that can be turned up to 400hp.

 

[icman95]

I drive a 2006 ISC8. 3 at work and love every minute of it. I wish I could tell you more about swapping it, but I don't know much about it. I can attest to it's driveability, reliability and power. All of the ones in our fleet were ordered with 260hp, but it sure seems like they have more than that! They run so well that the boss had to turn them all down because drivers were going too fast. Good luck with your issues.

 

[magothy1]

I ran a 35' lobster boat tricked out to a yacht from Maine to St Croix a few years back. It had a 3116, the engine ran away on us, I got it shut down and we were towed in. They put a reman engine back into the boat. Talking with various mechanics I never heard too much good about that series Cat. I've been shrimping 30 plus years, been around alot of good engines and some bad, usually Cats are good, but that series seems to have a poor rep.

I'd try something else, knowing what little I do. Good luck, being broke down is no fun.

 

[HBarlow]

Wow. It seems that the guys who know about the small CAT engine don't have anything good to say about it. Maybe it would be a better decision to repower your truck with a Cummins.

Does anyone know what it would cost to repower with an entirely different engine? Suppose both engines are of a similar size and weight. I'd guess that a Cummins ISC bell housing that would mate with your existing nine speed transmission could be found without too much difficulty. I hope the engine oil pan of a Cummins will fit in the frame and over the steering linkage of a GM chassis. I suppose any good shop could fabricate engine mounts to install a Cummins. Both engine bell housings are probably compatible with a hydraulic clutch master and slave assembly and linkage could be adapted. "Throttle" linkage would probably be fairly simple or, are the engines both drive by wire? Radiator connections might not mate but could probably be solved with new top and/or bottom tanks to match up with the ISC.

Being a Cummins fan I'm confident the Cummins is a better long term engine if conversion/installation is not too difficult or expensive.

 

[jgillott]

I ran a 35' lobster boat tricked out to a yacht from Maine to St Croix a few years back. It had a 3116, the engine ran away on us, I got it shut down and we were towed in. They put a reman engine back into the boat. Talking with various mechanics I never heard too much good about that series Cat. I've been shrimping 30 plus years, been around alot of good engines and some bad, usually Cats are good, but that series seems to have a poor rep.

I'd try something else, knowing what little I do. Good luck, being broke down is no fun.

We had one run away in a medium duty pumper we used to have here in our FD. It obviously had a lot of engine hours on it, but only 40K or so on the truck when it happend. It unfortunately wasn't able to be shut down by the crew before it blew internals out of the pan. That truck was repowered by a reman Cat. It was still running OK by the time we sold the unit, but the reman never ran as strong as the original, even after several times back to the Cat dealer to try and squeeze more out of it.



To the original poster, if you have the time and the cost wouldn't be too far out of line with what a reman Cat will cost you, I would seriously consider a repower from another company.

 

[RShipp]

You are correct, the 3116/3126 is an electronic engine as is the CAPS and common rail ISC. Bellhousings could be purchased. Both engines utilized the same transmissions. The great thing about Cummins is that they specialize in application engineering. The engine ECM has two plugs. One for the engine harness and the other for the OEM vehicle harness. Besides, Cummins parts are so much cheaper to buy.

 

[Philip]

Here is a link you might want to read.



https://www.turbodieselregister.com...re-power-cat-3116-out-isl-400-jake-going.html

 

[whathill]

Hi everyone,



Thank you all so very much for your quick replies. Good old TDR! If they ever call it quits, Well, I guess the world will end! The caring people in this Forum are the best!



Well, looks like I'm gonna call Cummins up and get a price on a engine! I sure don't want to spend $12-16k on a reman Cat only to throw good $ after bad! I just want to make sure that I'm not opening a can of worms! This rig is now our main front runner and piece of mind knowing that any shop will work on it should "God Forbid" anything happen is a must! Were using old reliable 01 Cummins now!



Well since my last post, Cat called and told me I indeed need a engine! Lost the head gasket and #4 and 6 cyls. are gone, to far out of specs.



Guys If I was more mechanically inclined, my questions would be answered! I'd have the good C engine in the rig! But I'm not! Now, I'm not a dummy either, do my own P M work etc. But to take on a job like this, one has to be pretty sharp!



O K, I'll do some calling around and keep you all posted!







Again, Thanks for all your replies and concerns!

Dennis

 

[Oasis-3]

I had a 1999 Freightliner FL-70 with a 3126 7 speed trans. and over 450,000 miles on it when I sold it, got $10 K for it.

It had good fuel milage but low on the power.

I have seen the same truck with a 5. 9 Cummins in it and a 7 speed trans.

I would think a 5. 9 with a 9 speed trans. and a little work would be well over the 235HP. that Cat made



Good Luck

Cliff

 

[whathill]

Hi everyone,



Just got back in from a trouble free trip with our Dodge! Did the calling around and boy, Cummins don't give there engs away either! A crate 8. 3 is $14k! Then all the change over items. ????????????????



I also called a few shops around to see if they would work on a truck that had a change over. Almost all said they rather NOT! And the one's that said they would, said it would be more money cause of the time involved! Can you imagine what it would be like being broke down on the road!



Anyway, the Cat dealer that did all the work called me and said they have a 3126/300hp out of a wrecked motor home, front end damage, with 38k on it. They said it dyno'd out perfect and i could have it for $6k with a 3yr/300k warranty.



Maybe this is the way to go? We really like our toter home, but with the same brand of eng in it and if we do find another toter home, (WITH A CUMMINS IN IT!), ours would be easier to sell!



Anyway, Thanks for listening,

Dennis

 

[whathill]

Just a quick reply,



Mr. HBarlow, The toter was taken to Cat. It was only for a major tune up thou. I never had the eng rebuilt. The rig had 171k on it when we bought it and never in my wildest dreams did I think all this would happen before 200k! I've always been a firm believer that if your gonna take working or traveling seriously, order the rig right, and leave it stock! By going to a Dealer, their work comes with a warranty. The tune up work Cat did came with a 1yr/100k. If your rig breaks down three states away it's pretty hard to get a private shop to come out.



Thanks Again,

Dennis

 

[RShipp]

I think you are on the right track. Buy the used engine and sell that thing when you can. At least it comes with a warranty.

 

[HBarlow]

Dennis,

The used Cat 38k mile engine from a wrecked motorhome is the way I would go. That sounds like a little good luck and fortunate timing for you after the bad luck with the other engine. A very desirable solution and the new/used engine, if properly cared for with routine filter and fluid changes should last you for years.

I suppose the wrecked motorhome is/was a diesel pusher so they could dyno it even with a smashed front end. Is it possible for you to see the mh and sneak a peek at the odometer?