Need Help Convincing a Friend to Buy a Cummins over a Ford

[MFalkinham]

Just a thought... ... . Never try to convince a friend to buy anything. If he follows your convincing, and buys a Lemon, your a bad guy forever and maybe loose a friend. And Lemons exist in everything.

WM-300

You're right, but there is a difference between convincing someone and just making sure they have enough information to make an informed buying decision. Nobody likes to see a friend get burned because they didn't have all of the facts prior to such a major purchase.

If they come to the same buying decision as you did after doing their own research then I don't see how they can blame you should something go wrong.

 

[Glaze]

Check out TDR #43 "Technical Topics" by Joe Donnelly. This article presents empirical evidence that Dodge is an overall better truck, especially for towing. It talks about the new engine being smog legal in all fifty states without using EGR, for less moving parts. The most torque at 600ft lbs and 325HP. The most sophisticated chassis, biggest brakes, and excellent handling. Upgraded safety features are also available.



Find out what issues are most important to your friend when he goes shopping for a new vehicle. If a rugged, trailer towing, long lasting truck is what he really wants, the Dodge Cummins has no equal.

 

[sarj]

Take each out on the freeway and cuise at 65... then put it to the floor for 3-4 seconds. That's what sold me. The ford just made a lot of noise. The CTD wants to move out.

 

[OHale]

If it hasn't been written already, try



http://forums.thedieselstop.com/ubbthreads/



and



http://www.ford-trucks.com/forums/forumdisplay.php?f=107



There are a 6. 0L Powerstroke forums there. The second site has a sticky titled "Problem/mileage on 6. 0’s to all owners". You can find out what sort of problems people have been having with their trucks, just as you can find out about Dodges here.



I do know that the 6. 0 PS has had some significant problems but I haven't followed the subject so I don't know if they still do. When the 6. 0 first came out dealers couldn't sell the old 7. 3L PSs on the lot: now if you have one they are sought after used trucks. Ford makes a nice truck I would just be concerned about the PS.



The price of my fully loaded Laramie was considerably less than a loaded Ford.



What are your local dealerships like? The Dodge shop near me is excellent: the local Ford shop is not well thought of. That made it a clincher for me. The best truck in the world will need a major repair someday and that can be a one-trip experience or a nightmare.

 

[Wayne M.]

"tell him to open the hoods and ask him whitch one he wants to work on. "

This is a good one, I said the same thing!



I recently completed a 2 day Ford fleet training session on the 6. 0 since I am getting in a whole bunch of them in F250, F450 and F550's in varoius applications. I really don't like this engine at all from a neutral standpoint and I think I would buy a Dmax if I had to choose between the two engines (we recently got them in C4500's too).



One real tidbit I can pass on is that the oil pressure gauge on ford super duty 6. 0's do not read true oil pressure. That's right, the gauge is hooked to a switched sender and either reads OK oil pressure (middle range on gauge) or none at all below a certain value. This was done to quiet people who compare one truck to another.

 

[Gary - K7GLD]

"One real tidbit I can pass on is that the oil pressure gauge on ford super duty 6. 0's do not read true oil pressure. That's right, the gauge is hooked to a switched sender and either reads OK oil pressure (middle range on gauge) or none at all below a certain value. This was done to quiet people who compare one truck to another. "



YUP - just like Dodge does in the later generation trucks!

 

[Coyote556]

Three words, "LOW END TORQUE" enough said... ...

 

[hasselbach]

Whenever I defend getting the dodge cummins, I say,



"hey, ALL over the road trucks... no matter what brand, have in line 6 cyl. diesels... . there are no V-8's... not really anyways... Plus, I make 380hp on 6 cylinders... . the stock 600 cummins has the same power as the V-8 Ford..... So the same hp with better MPg's, how can you go wrong?"

So I guess you have never seen a Cat, Detroit Diesel, Freightliner, International, etc?? They all have 8's. I don't see any significant advantage to either a 6 or an 8, they both have advantages and disadvantages. The v8, with more valve surface area has the potential to make more HP, whereas the 6 with its longer stroke is possibly suited for more low end TQ.



To each his own. I have both, and like my duramax as much as the cummins.

 

[Matt400]

I don't think GM is even in the picture.

Thats good. . I just read up on a Service Bulletin last night about the 01-04 D-max turbo failures. Seems many are related to oil starvation from a spun cam bearing. When the bearing spins it cuts off the oil supply flow to the charger, which means a new short block or complete engine is needed ouch!!

 

[Jefff929]

We just finished up a Rodeo here. While in the contestant area I had a look around. It may have something to do with the terrain where you’re at. By my guesstimeation, there were few Dmax’s, more Fords (both kinds), by far Dodge/CTD is the preferred method of pulling a horse trailer here. Your freind will buy what he will, his money, his cost of learning.

 

[Punkineater]

Ford makes a great truck, GM makes a great truck and so does Dodge. I researched, researched and researched before I made my purchase... ... ..... then I made up my mind based on the knowledge I gained. I've been happy with my decision. Brand loyalty has always been moronic in my opinion.

 

[Badunit]

For some reason, this discussion reminded me of a joke:



There is a man who has three girlfriends, but he does not know which one

to marry, so he decides to give each one $5000 and see how each of them

spends it.



The first one goes out and gets a total makeover with the money. She gets

new clothes, a new hairdo, manicure, pedicure, the works, and tells the

man, "I spent the money so I could look pretty for you because I love you

so much. "



The second one went out and bought new golf clubs, a CD player, a

television, and a stereo and gives them to the man. She says, "I bought

these gifts for you with the money because I love you so much. "



The third one takes the $5000 and invests it in the stock market, doubles

her investment, returns the $5000 to the man and reinvests the rest. She

says, "I am investing the rest of the money for our future because I love

you so much. "



The man thought long and hard about how each of the women spent the

money...



... . He finally decided to marry the one with the biggest tits...



That's what I see with brand loyalty. A lot of people will do the research and still buy whatever brand they thought they wanted at the beginning.

 

[Drewhenry]

Have your buddy compare fuel usage among the competition AKA $$$ at the pump for tonnage hauled per mile. Also one of the major manufacturers of engine oil has blatently stated " the cummins engine is the only true heavyduty diesel in light trucks" or something very close to that.

 

[OHale]

Badunit,



LOL, Excellent!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[hasselbach]

who really cares 'who buys what'? geez, are we so thin skinned that if our neighbor buys a ford it makes our choice look suspect?



I've owned fords, and they have been all great trucks. my chevy is a great tow vehicle, and the interior is hands down better than my dodge. . each have their own personalities. .

 

[805gregg]

Tell him this I had (1) friend who went through (3) transmissions and a turbo by 112,000 miles, another put in (3) transmissions by 38,000 miles, another who bought a $60,000 550 had so many problems ford bought it back under the lemon law, he now has a 3500 which has been in shop so many times he bought a second truck for work. I have put 380,000 miles on my last 3 dodges with these problems (1) fuel tank sender unit went bad (2) 1 speaker went out and ruined my stereo, thats it.



805gregg

ojai, ca

 

[Wayne M.]

"One real tidbit I can pass on is that the oil pressure gauge on ford super duty 6. 0's do not read true oil pressure. That's right, the gauge is hooked to a switched sender and either reads OK oil pressure (middle range on gauge) or none at all below a certain value. This was done to quiet people who compare one truck to another. "



YUP - just like Dodge does in the later generation trucks!

Gary, you're gonna have to prove that one to me, and on which later trucks?. I know I have a new 6. 0 at the shop and the OP gauge is in the same spot all the time regardless of engine temp or engine speed. I also know that on my own truck (see sig) I have more OP showing when cold than when warm etc. In other words- believable readings and not a idiot lamp in the form of a gauge that shows either zero or normal.

 

[Jefff929]

Wayne, what Gary said is well documented with (TDR) folks using mechanical gauges. link to idot light gauge is from the NWBOMBers, I'm sure folks here have made the same observations about 3rd gen trucks.

 

[Badunit]

Yep, oil pressure is faked to correspond with "customer expectations". Just a glorified idiot light, unfortunately.

 

[Bagger]

Ford makes a great truck, GM makes a great truck and so does Dodge. I researched, researched and researched before I made my purchase... ... ..... then I made up my mind based on the knowledge I gained. I've been happy with my decision. Brand loyalty has always been moronic in my opinion.

Gotta agree with Punkineater. The ONLY reason I owned Fords before was because the Ol' Lady worked at a Ford Dealership back home, and we got 'em on D plan. Then my chosen profession required us to move to UCLA (Upper Corner Lower Alabama), and she had to relinquish her job. She has a much better job now, but the point is... ... Ford was cheaper at the time. Had we still been back home, I'd have bought a PSD with which to begin my post retirement travels. Since we were now free to examine the other makes, and because of my experience with Cummins in the M923 series 5T Army trucks, we looked at Dodge and were hooked. Very glad we bought a CTD, but I'll be the first to admit... ... ... at the price we paid, D plan looks awful much mo' betta!!!!!! Even if the PSD is a Navistar.