Engine/Transmission (1998.5 - 2002) Need Input from EVERYONE!!! Please Look!

[qzilla]

I can tell you that by having 3 of these polls running I have learned a LOT very fast!



The first thing I learned is that we have not done a good job letting the consumer know what our current products are doing and what their capabilities are.





I am going to run down the list and answer some questions and respond to some comments.

I'm all for the MPG improvement, but can you go ahead and make it add About 150 hp? Actually my dad would be interested I think. I already have the comp, and it wouldn't be right to reduce the hp. My truck would hate me for it.



Also, would it require pump wire tap like the xtz, or just plug'n'play similar to edge ez? (sorry about competitor references just makes it easy to unerstand)



Go for it. Let me know if you need som Beta Testing

Well this product will be available shortly in the form of our Race box. The kicker is you need to be on Power Level 1 for the best mileage. That is sort of skirting the point of this product.



No pump tapping needed. It would install just like an EZ but, it will have an optional switch.



Sorry, no beta testing needed. We beta tested the XZT+ for a long time and I have lots of data on mpg gains from that test.

how would it work if someone has other box's or bigger injectors? could you turn off your box and increase power then turn off the extra power and turn on fuel saver?I know you cant go switching injectors so how would it work if you had bigger ones?

A lot depends on what you already have. It might work fine with it and it might not. You can turn it on and off. You can also upgrade it so it has off-economy-and 70hp if you want.



It should work even better with just injectors. Obviously I could never test every injector on every pump but, as a general rule you should stand to gain more.

It needs to be plug and play, no wire splicing/tapping etc.



How about Economy - Non-tow, Economy - light tow (<5klbs), Economy - heavy tow (>=5K lbs), Get out of my way, now! - fast, Wipe that Grin off your face-fast.



I have analog gauges already.



Economy has to be 20% or better. That 10% stuff is to hard to determine if there was an improvement since there are other factors, temp, fuel purchased where?, etc.



<$400. 00 - I'll buy tomorrow.

What you want is already available.

Quadzilla



All of your requirements are already met in this instance. Plus it has the added feature of the USB updates so you can pick and choose how you like your performance setting to be.

I'd be very interested as long as It won't hurt a stock auto transmission. That's the one thing keeping me from doing any real mods, I know I need to update the transmission before I start throwing more power down.

Guaranteed not to strain your transmission, raise egts (it will lower them) or cause any other negative side affects.

Quad can correct me if I'm wrong, but I don't think this box is intended for those with other boxes, injectors, gauges, etc. I think he most likely intends this box to be for bone stock trucks that only want to see an increase in fuel economy. It sounds like he wants to be able to offer a small (65-70) HP bump IF the buyer would like to upgrade the box at some point.



Personally, I think it's a great idea. There are lots of guys around that are stock and don't have plans to add power but would love to get the fuel economy. I'm also with the other fella about the 10% not being enough. 20% is a more tangible number IMHO.



I think you should certainly offer it with Commander compatibility. A nice compact set of digital gauges and a mileage box that doesn't add power (i. e. doesn't require other modifications to run properly... like transmission/clutch, exhaust, and air upgrades and such. ) should be a winner

This is the basis I am looking for. I think you pretty much nailed it without going into a ton of details.

Well, if you're getting 20 MPG without it, a 2 MPG increase saves you about $150/10,000 miles ($3 fuel). It would pay for itself somewhere around 13-17,000 miles at today's fuel prices.



Attached is a PDF of an excel spreadsheet and chart comparing fuel cost at different fuel prices and MPG.

This is true but, a little un-reasonable at the same time. If you look at a realistic average you can pay for it between 4500 and 10000 miles. It depends on what mileage you are getting to start with.



Trucks that get worse mileage will benefit more than those getting 20mpg to start with. I am not sure how realistic it is thinking many stock trucks get 20mpg. I know some do but, I bet the average is 14-15mpg across the board and based on our feedback.



Here are some numbers, they are rounded so they are not 100% to the T exact but, it lets you look at the same thing you showed us in a little different light.



30gal tank at $2. 8877/gal = $86. 63



At 16mpg this is 480 miles to the tank. A cost of $. 18 per mile







At a 10% increase this would net 17. 6mpg for a total of 528 miles costing $. 16 per mile At this rate the module would pay for itself in 9950 miles.







At 15% increase this would net 18. 4mpg for a total of 552 miles costing $. 15 per mile



At this rate the module would pay for itself in 6633 miles







At 20% increase this would net 19. 2mpg for a total of 576 miles costing $. 14 per mile



At this rate the module would pay for itself in 4975 miles.

Will it smoke a lot? I really don't want a big cloud.

Absolutely no smoke.

I don't like your choices.



I think you might sell a few as fuel prices continue to climb you may sell quite a few. You need to be "banks marketing" it. Most folks who have any inclination to mod their truck have done it, getting some of the others who haven't already bought a box is the trick. EVERY product I have ever bought claimed I could get better mileage. While this is true, I have always changed my driving style to accommodate the turbo sound, added power, whatever... I could get great fuel economy if I could just __________. fill in the blank.

I understand what you are saying but, it is just flat not true.



There are more 2nd gen trucks adding modifications now than they ever have. The trucks are getting out of warranty, they are getting paid for and fuel is steadily going up. People are looking harder for improvements more now than ever.



Realize that is not true on this board or other internet boards. This is a very small sampling of the 24v truck owners and you must realize that. Overall this group is 100 times more educated and more extreme than the average customer.



I know every product claims this. The problem is that they also give you an opportunity to burn more fuel as well. The other problem is that they are not economically priced. If you pay $500 and get 1. 5 mpg gain that is far worse than if you paid say $180 and got that same gain. It also changes the mindset for the customer as well.

Using your own spreadsheet you would save about $136. 00 on 10000 miles

So it would take almost 30000 miles to get your money back that to me is

To long needs to cost less to for me to think about buying it.

I agree and that was not my spreedsheet by the way!!!



If you are getting 20mpg or 24mpg you are probably not looking to do somethng like this. IF you are getting 15mpg then you are and it will benefit you sooner than if you were already gettin 20mpg.



Hope that helps clear a few things up.



If not please let me know.



I really appreciate your feedback and responses, it really helps and I really do look at every single one of them!

 

[AndyMan]

I appreciate your looking to the diesel community for input. It means a lot to me to see a manufacturer take an interest in what we think. There are only a couple of you guys that do that. So THANKS for listening.

 

[RDHamill]

I'm interested, but have one concern. As I am always towing , will this unit advance timing to the point that I should be worried ????

thanks

 

[PRout]

I appreciate your looking to the diesel community for input. It means a lot to me to see a manufacturer take an interest in what we think. There are only a couple of you guys that do that. So THANKS for listening.

I second that comment. You seem to UNDERSTAND or be listening to what some of us have been asking for, for a while now. My current programming/er situation is starting to get just plain wierd and uncomfortable and am looking for a mfg with a more "sympathetic ear" and some action available for what some of us more conservative truck owners want.

I didnt by my 30k dollar truck to be a race car, as it wasnt designed to be one. I like others played with the performance mods and they were fun for awhile but somewhere along the way lost the original intent and enjoyment out of the rig like when it was embarassing to smoke from every stoplight, and have alot of the other basically "appliance operators" in their fords & chevys wanting to race me with their hot rod trucks that they have thrown half of their rent money at trying to prove who is king of the road. It kinda took some of the fun out of it, so for about the last year have been completely revamping the mods for fuel mileage, durability, utility and less aggressive appearance - again.

My truck was fantastic running with some plain ol DD1's and an old BD Plug-n-power box by Van Aaken and a simple K&N or BHAF with the muffler cut out and resonator left in. Didnt even need to throw about 2500. 00+ just in aftermarket clutch upgrade lessons. It towed the 5th wheel perfectly that way (with the stock clutch till the pilot bearing went). Started going nuts buying high power junk that all made reasons to need the next thing. Then all of a sudden it towed like crap. Hey, but it was fast!! Oh, and it was the "in" thing because it could Blacken out the freeway behind me with black unburned wasted fuel. .

So, with that speech said, I am very interested in what kind of "efficiency" improvements your company has to offer. I will be checking out the webpage and pls feel free to PM or put me on your email list for info.

Thanks again for listening to us (and to my ramblings - kinda venting really) and good luck in your ventures. I can say this. . Over the years we have watched it happen. The vendors that sometimes found it necessary to eat their pride on here in public but went out of their way to help their customers and even had to eat alot of their sales in the beginning, ended up turning out to be some of the most successful in the long run because people on here will buy from them with no questions asked. Period. There are one or two that I wont even ask their price. I just want it from them. Reputation of honesty and helpfulness is everything.

Thanks for reading,
Phil

 

[John - K5AWO]

PRout,

You just wrote a mouth full there. The HP game is not where it is at. Driveability and utility is.

I have stopped right where I am with my truck for the exact reasons that you mention.

As I write this post, my truck is cruising down I-8 coming home to papa.

My son has had it with him for the past 3 months tinkering with it in slow stages. Doing the simplest things first, drive it a while, take notes.

He told me tonight that it is totally driveable now, has more than enough power to tow with, and still keeping the EGTs down under 1100 with the pedal down.

As for mpg, that is open for calculation. He should know by the time he gets into Phoenix sometime in the morning wee hours. It used to be 15 up hill, down hill; and if I got crazy and run over 2500 rpm, the mpg dropped to 10 real fast.

So, to answer the above questions, not sure if QZ's box is for me?? but I do want more mpg. Especially with diesel at $2. 97/gallon here in Phoenix as of today.

 

[John - K5AWO]

On the poll, I don't think the bullet points are what you really needed. Depends on what each potential customer's needs are.

With a lightly modded truck, if the box cannot be used with what is existing, then probably not.

With my truck just barely modded, and IF the $200 add-on would give me 1. 5 mpg; then I would probably would buy it.

At $150 I would take the gamble without even thinking twice about it.

At $250 or more, not likely I would mess with it as fuel mileage is such a tenuous game. Way too many variables to just lay it down to "only one item" that did the trick.

It would take me at least 5 tanks of fuel averaged out to decide if a "new gimick" actually did help me out.

 

[ILIANBG]

I was really interested in the new box from Quadzilla that just came out for the second gen. trucks. Will it work with this mileage improving box you are talking about, or I just need to wait for this new box to come out and not buy the XZT+(I think that's wat was called)?

Thank you for listening to this croud here.

Ilian

 

[qzilla]

Well, it depends on what you want. If you ONLY want mileage then buy the mileage box.



If you want power and mileage you can either buy the XZT+ and go on.



OR



You can try the mileage box and upgrade it at anytime online to the XZT+ box. It is very simple and the cost is the same to you. However you want to do it is fine. I m just offering 2 ways to get to the same spot. The mileage will be easier to get mileage with because it does not have the tempting 3rd level to it! It also provides a less expensive introduction into the performance world.

 

[swmnkdinthervr]

Looks like the consensus is that you have an excellent product idea... like I said elsewhere... this will broaden the appeal and customer base!

 

[CanadianCarGuy]

What kind of timing advance are we looking at? Sounds like it could some super agressive timing advance and maybe a significant change in the way the injectors spray. Will it be ok to tow heavy loads with box on, or is it strictly for commuting.



I would definately be interested in one of these boxes, you can never have enough of them these days it seems, a different box for every different purpose: edge comp for street racing, smarty for defueling, quadzilla box for mileage, redline for going crazy... . all these boxes and still no one has a box for biodiesel!

 

[Bob Cochran]

What I will be attempting to do is increase HP to the range of 350 to 400 with more torque for towing in the mean time keeping EGT's below 1200 at WOT. To start a more reliable LP. Perhaps RV275's or the like and was thinking the Smarty Jr but not entirely sold as yet on it. Better intake such as maybe AFE, etc. maybe 4" exhaust and if necessary a new turbo perhaps one of the hybrid HX ones. If your device can fill in and get to where I am going for sure will buy it especially at a reasonable price. I am just starting down this road but some money problems has slowed me down for a few months. Hope this helps.

 

[PRout]

The more options the better. . Lots of different wants/needs here in the threads.

1. I would like a fuel mileage program for normal in-city driving "empty".
2. Would like a separate "Towing Heavy" program to take some of the stress off the internals when under load like less aggressive timing.
3. Ok, I'd mess around with a "Hot Rod" program too but 1 & 2 are my real wants.

 

[obert]

So, there is NO power increase at mpg saver level? Also saw the timing question, want to reiterate. Whats it do to the timing?

 

[AKaiser]

Using your own spreadsheet you would save about $136. 00 on 10000 miles

So it would take almost 30000 miles to get your money back that to me is

To long needs to cost less to for me to think about buying it. :-{}

Hey Mark, what kind of new/fuzzy math is that? If this box is half the cost of an XZT+

I have a history of being long winded and trying to explain everything in great detail. I will try to keep this as short as possible.



What would you think about a product for the 98. 5-02 trucks that was targeted strictly at mileage and not performance?... Now, to top this off since it is economy based we need to make it priced economically. Lets say we have the retail price somewhere around 1/2 price of the XZT+ modules.

and the XZT is $400, (I actually found one by googling for $319)

I'd be interested, FYI guys the XZT is a $400 box, according to that Quadzilla link. So for $200..... 10 - 20%..... yep, I'd be interested. Wouldn't take long to amortize it

then MY ORIGINAL FIGURES are correct, and your 30K is about 2x longer than what it takes. Getting your money back comes in reduced fuel cost (about $200 worth) which would occur at 14,704 miles, not 30,000, given $3 fuel. Here's the math for you: 10,000 miles/$136= 73. 52 miles per dollar fuel cost. Multiply $200 (supposed cost of the box) times 73. 52 miles. That gives you 14,704 miles.



True, my figures are based on a 2 MPG increase from 20 to 22 MPGs, which may seem like an unlikely market, unlike someone going from 16-18, therefore pointless, but that's your argument based on MY figures.

 

[azpete]

Wish I could see those 20MPG figures. Since new I can only get 15. 5 unloaded. Just got home from a 4000 mi. trip with the camper and averaged 11. 5mpg. Anything that would get me even 2 better I would be interested.

 

[PRout]

Wish I could see those 20MPG figures. Since new I can only get 15. 5 unloaded. Just got home from a 4000 mi. trip with the camper and averaged 11. 5mpg. Anything that would get me even 2 better I would be interested.

Same here Bro. Im spending dollars to wring out dimes worth of mileage. 18. 5 overall best so far. Last tank with RV275's netted me 16. 5 a week ago. Now were trying new Mach 1 injectors. . :-laf:-laf

 

[qzilla]

What kind of timing advance are we looking at? Sounds like it could some super agressive timing advance and maybe a significant change in the way the injectors spray. Will it be ok to tow heavy loads with box on, or is it strictly for commuting.

It does advance timing. I am not about to say exactly how much, or exactly what we do. It is not enough to hurt anything and you can tow all you want with it.



The injector spray pattern is not affected by timing. All timing does is change when the injectors spray, not how they spray.

I would definately be interested in one of these boxes, you can never have enough of them these days it seems, a different box for every different purpose: edge comp for street racing, smarty for defueling, quadzilla box for mileage, redline for going crazy... . all these boxes and still no one has a box for biodiesel!

That used to be the case. As soon as our "Race" box is released (we are working on beta testing now), there is nothing any of those other boxes do that the Race box won't do, including the mileage gains. The problem is that it is not cheap enough to warrant buying only for mileage.

So, there is NO power increase at mpg saver level? Also saw the timing question, want to reiterate. Whats it do to the timing?

There is a performance gain but, not a ton. It is not meant to be a ton. If you stick it on a dyno you will see a gain. We will NEVER advertise a power gain though on this type product. That is not what it is for.



Now, if you want to upgrade it, then yes, there is a big power gain!

Since new I can only get 15. 5 unloaded. Just got home from a 4000 mi. trip with the camper and averaged 11. 5mpg.

This is the average vehicle and mileage figures we based our math off of. Just think, if you had one of these it would have most likely paid for itself already.

 

[AKaiser]

On the subject of poor fuel economy: Is this more of a problem in the VP44 pumped 24 Valve (Pre HPCR)? My 05 and my BILs 06 are getting 20+ average mixed driving. He got 23 on the highway by removing the muffler.

 

[DonSimpson]

I like the idea, but I was also sold on the Edge-EZ, I was under the impression that the EZ would boost the HP by 65 and it did, but also improve the fuel mileage by 2-3 mpg. I recieved MAYBE 1/2 to 1 mile p/gallon, so I'm pretty discouraged with the EZ's fuel boost. I have a stock 01 CTD and I don't get into the petal. I'd probably look into this more later.

 

[obert]

Lookin good so far..... this and RV275's might be the combo I'm looking for. The TST2 box has nice power for me, but its ALL fuel and hurts the milage a bit.



Upgrade questions:

1) I know you pay to play. An upgrade to same as XZT would cost the balance of what I would have paid in the first place, or slightly less since I already have the hardware?



2)How big a file is the download? My rural dial-up connection can take hours to download the same file I get in minuetts at work on the LAN. Could the software be put on a CD and mailed? I know that risks proprietary info, but maybe there is some form of security for that.