Engine/Transmission (1994 - 1998) Need Instructions To Remove Stock & Install New SBC Clutch

[Bob V]

I dont think that the crank seal is leaking. The oul really has no way to get into the clutch. Looks more like it is from the front transmission seal

 

[Dave M]

I dont think that the crank seal is leaking. The oul really has no way to get into the clutch. Looks more like it is from the front transmission seal

Geez... it really looks like the rear seal since I see what appears to be oil at the seal and just below it. I probably need to replace the crank and transmission seal to be safe. I'm trying to figure out how to do them. Can the seal be installed without a special seal installer like the one in the $140 Quad 4x4 kit or can I just tap it in? Right now I'm thinking I'll get that $140 kit if I have to. Here is a link to the Quad 4x4 kit:



Dodge Engine & Clutch



Any cheaper ways to do the crank seal?



Not sure yet how to do the transmission input seal. Any ideas?



Thanks,

Dave

 

[Dave M]

Ordered New Crank & transmission Seals

I ordered the crank seal from Cummins West Fresno for $41 and the Input transmission retainer (with race, bearing and seal installed) from Blumenthal Transmissions for $37 and they both will overnight ship it to me.



Tuesday (tomorrow) night I will be putting the seals in and then maybe the transmission.



Dave

 

[Dave M]

New Crank Rear Seal And transmission Input Seal Installed

I got the 2 seals last night and installed them. The crank seal was not a big deal to remove and install. The Cummins seal kit came with a plastic sleeve for the rubber lip to slip over the crank and a steel ring to install the seal to the correct depth.



The transmission input retainer with seal was a little hard to remove. Four bolts hold it on. It was stuck good onto the transmission with some adhesive. I had to pry it off with screw drivers, putty knifes, gasket scrappers and hammer and finally pried it off. New one went on easy and it was recommended to use red Permatex "Gasket Eliminator" on the retainer to transmission flat surface.



Pics are below. Tonight I start engine and let run for 15 minutes with just flywheel on to checks for rear crank seal leaks. Then I start bolting the clutch and transmission and get it done.



The first pic shows the contents of the Cummins Crank rear seal kit. The crank seal I removed is there with the 2 screws in it that I used to remove the seal. The white seal I did not use and the seal installer ring is shown on top. On the bottom is the teflon sleeve used to slid the lip of seal onto crank and the new crank seal is on bottom left. The teflon seal insatlller is similar to the one I used for the crank seal for the front gear case cover.



The 2nd pic shows the crank seal removed from crank. The 3rd pic shows the transmission input retainer removed and 4th pic shows the new retainer installed with the red Gasket Eliminator sealant. Check out the transmission jack on steroids I borrowed from work. It took 4 of us to load into my truck. Must weigh 200+ lbs.



Anyone thinks of anything to look for or do while I'm putting this together please chime in.



Thanks,

Dave



Dave

 

[Dave M]

One last pic of the new crank seal installed. I sure hope I get it done tonight and don't have any problems or foget something.



Since I've removed it once the install should be easier and faster as long as I don't spend time looking for misplaced bolts etc.



Any words of windom or advice please let me know. I'll try to post when I'm done. It will probably be midnight or later tonight.



Thanks,

Dave

 

[Dave M]

Installed flywheel, pressure plate and clutch last night. Then put bell housing on engine but could not get transmission in... it was too high and could not jack truck up high enough. Took bell housing off engine and put it on transmission... that was how I removed it.



Found the clip on clutch arm pivot ball keep falling off so I'm getting a new one.



Got a car from work to borrow so today we go xmas shopping and try to finish truck tomorrow.



Dave

 

[Dave M]

Got New Pivot Ball and Clip today

I ran around and found the clutch pivot ball asnd clip at dealer today. Three dealers did not have it and one only had one in stock.



Took some pics to show progress to date. The first 2 pics show my new SBC clutch pressure plate and fly wheel installed on truck. The 3rd pic shows the clutch (bell) housing installed on transmission minus the pivot ball on left. The 4th pic shows where the pivot ball screws into the housing. The 5th pic shows the new pivot ball and clip.



The old pivot ball was worn on the plastic top and had groves in the metal under the ball head where the clip attached. I replaced both because while I was installing the clutch fork it kept falling off the pivot ball. I should have ordered one with the new clutch and it would have saved me a lot of last minitue running around... mixed in with last minite christmas shopping.



Tomorrow I plan to finish job I'll post when done.



Dave

 

[JGK]

Something that just occurred to me that Peter at SBC had me address when I put my latest clutch in. He said that when the transmission is bolted up to the engine, you should check free play in the release fork at the slave cylinder end. In other words, just before you bolt on the clutch slave cylinder, reach in with a pair of needle nose pliers and grab the little pocket on the end of the fork and move it fore and aft - the same direction as the clutch actuator moves. Peter said there should be some play, as much as a half inch. This ensures the release bearing isn't preloading the release fingers in the clutch housing, which will cause premature failure of the clutch.



Now I never checked that on the 2 single disk SBC clutches I've had and they worked great for a lot of miles. But my first dual disk clutch failed early and the truck wasn't putting out anywhere near the power the clutch was rated for.



So when Peter shipped me a new clutch he had me check this play. This was the first time I'd heard about it. But sure enough, no play at all. So, at his direction, I removed the transmission again, removed the bearing, and using a carbide burr on a die grinder removed some cast material from the back of the bearing where it rides on the release fork. It took ALOT of material to be removed, but eventually I got the recommended play. Needless to say, this meant some guess work and measuring so as to avoid installing/removing the transmission multiple times. But in the end it was worth it because the clutch is working quite well with more miles on it than the first time.



So, you may want to check this. If there is no play, well, call Peter and get his recommendation. Single disk clutches may not have this issue. It's a real pain to pull the transmission again to shave the bearing. But it's a much bigger pain to replace it before you should have to down the road.



-Jay

 

[GCroyle]

These master and slave cylinder systems have a built in preload on the bearing via a spring inside the slave cylinder, it pushes on the piston->pushrod->release fork. The system does not have a return spring to pull the fork back with. Prior to installation of the slave cylinder, the fork will be able to be pulled back in the direction of the trans, this is how it allows for the increase in the height of the diaphragm spring as the disc wears, normal process.



The bearing turns continuously with engine rotation.



Be careful, you can put the fork on backwards, the pads for the bearing should be on the raised curve of the fork, not on the flat section, compare to the old one for a reference.



It is also easier to damage the aluminum bell housing as you install the assembly with transmission attached. The steel dowel sleeves can damage the pilot holes in the B/H creating potential concentric misalignment. Also, check the dowel sleeves, make sure you still have 2 of them, I also will put a daub of grease on the sleeves to prevent corrosion.



Be patient stabbing the trans, good luck.



Merry Christmas.

 

[Dave M]

It's Finished

Thanks JGK and GCroyle for those last comments, which I found very interesting. Unfortunately I was in a hurry to finish the truck and stayed up last the night you posted to finish. I did not get a chance to check the play you mentioned JGK. GCroyle I did verify the fork was in properly. The instruction sheet with the kit referred to the part number stamped on the fork to be installed on passenger side which is same side as the pivot ball. That's how I installed the fork.



I had a hard time getting the transmission with bell housing attached to slip on the 2 guide pins. I had 3 extra long bolts installed to help guide it in but it would not go on the last 1/8-1/4 inch. The bottom was very close and the guide pins were touching but the top was not... it was 1/4+ inches off. Finally, I installed the top bolts and carefully tightened them and it caused everything to line up. I did not tighten hard to force it on but slowly they pulled the transmission on. Nothing else I did would get the transmission completely on. It was too heavy to tilt on. I spent 1/2 the day messing with it before I got it on.



The truck shifts ok but it's a little hard to get the transmission to engage in the gears. I'm a little concerned about that. I put Valvoline 75W-90 Syn power fluid in the transmission and Valvoline in transfer case. I have maybe 100 miles or less on it. The breakin period is 200 miles.



Thanks you all who posted with ideas. It was greatly appreciated. It took me a long time cause of the seals I needed later that had to be ordered and waited for and I cleaned all parts real good while I had them out.



Thanks,

Dave

 

[Dave M]

It's Finished

Thanks JGK and GCroyle for those last comments, which I found very interesting. Unfortunately I was in a hurry to finish the truck and stayed up late the night you posted to finish. I did not get a chance to check the play you mentioned JGK. GCroyle I did verify the fork was in properly. The instruction sheet with the kit referred to the part number stamped on the fork to be installed on passenger side which is same side as the pivot ball. That's how I installed the fork.



I had a hard time getting the transmission with bell housing attached to slip on the 2 engine (fly wheel housing. . to be exact) guide pins. I had 3 extra long bolts installed to help guide it in but it would not go on the last 1/8-1/4 inch. The bottom was very close but the top was not in. Finally, I installed the top bolts and carefully tightened them and it caused everything to line up. I did not tighten hard to force it on but slowly they pulled the transmission on. Nothing else I did would get the transmission completely on. It was too heavy to tilt on. I spent 1/2 the day messing with it before I got it on.



The truck shifts ok but it's a little hard to get the transmission to smoothly slip into the gears. I'm a little concerned about that. I replaced the flywheel, clutch, pressure plate, hydraulic master/slave assembly, crank rear seal, transmission input retainer with seal and I put Valvoline 75W-90 Syn power fluid in the transmission and Valvoline ATF in transfer case. I have less than 100 miles on it. The break-in period is 200 miles. I rechecked the fluid and it is to top of the plug on transmission and TC. By Friday I will have at least 100-200 miles more on it.



Thanks you all who posted with and ideas. It was greatly appreciated. It took me a long time cause of the seals I needed later and had to order and I cleaned all parts real good while I had them out.



Thanks,

Dave

 

[GCroyle]

Congratulations!

Dave,



I always get a bit concerned when a transmission doesn't go " thunk" and smack the bell housing. I have looked at enough discs that have been damaged by brute force, ugh! Using any method to pull/push the trans in place has the potential (underscore potential, no proof in this case) that the pilot bearing can be pushed back in the F/W and be out of position. We took a truck apart this summer that had this problem, the pilot was sticking out the backside of the F/W. Hopefully yours was just needing a bit of coaxing, enjoy your work!



Feel the pedal, it should have a minimum travel (its not freeplay, its just taking the lash out of the pedal bushings/shaft/pushrod/seals, etc) then the release stroke starts.

 

[Dave M]

Dave,



I always get a bit concerned when a transmission doesn't go " thunk" and smack the bell housing. I have looked at enough discs that have been damaged by brute force, ugh! Using any method to pull/push the trans in place has the potential (underscore potential, no proof in this case) that the pilot bearing can be pushed back in the F/W and be out of position. We took a truck apart this summer that had this problem, the pilot was sticking out the backside of the F/W. Hopefully yours was just needing a bit of coaxing, enjoy your work!



Feel the pedal, it should have a minimum travel (its not freeplay, its just taking the lash out of the pedal bushings/shaft/pushrod/seals, etc) then the release stroke starts.

YEAH... I'm a little worried that we coaxed it on too. After 1/2 of day of trying to get it in we tried pulling it on with the bolts. My son did it and I cautioned him to stop if he felt any resistance. He said it pulled on easily. The only way I'll know is to disassemble it again... ugh. What symptoms would I expect if the FW bearing is pressed in too far like you mentioned?



I'll check the pedal travel again. Thanks for the info.



Edit: I just got done talking with SBC and they said they machined the new flywheel so the bearing could not be pressed off the flywheel. But I could have damaged the rollers in the bearing. I described the notchy feeling when engaging the gears during shifting and he said that may be normal and to give the clutch some miles and see if the parts start to mesh. I'll keep an eye on it and if it continues after a few hundred more miles I'll remove it... ugh... and verify it.



Dave

 

[GCroyle]

Dave,



For everyone's benefit all clutch companies want to see that their product gets its share of care and attention to detail, makes for satisfied customers, good service life, and the benefits of reduced "issues". My comments are additional or emphasized things to pay attention to during the installation. I think from our respective fields we have all run into the situation where the guy says, "I feed all of my dogs chicken bones" and we cringe with pain.



I have no proof that any errors were made during your installation and you are right, the only way to know is pull it apart. Ideally, we want the trans to go "thunk" grab some bolts and enjoy completing the project. I have had one trans go "thunk" on the first try, it was amazing, it was a K Car back in 1985 I think. One additional factor that probably lead to the pilot being displaced is that the truck we worked on was missing one dowel sleeve, this possibly helped create the problem, but we don't know for sure



I have pictures from the installation, but unfortunately they are at the office that show the pilot backed out. If you could find it, the article is in the August 2007 Undercar Digest.



Symptoms would point in the direction of shifting related issues, we want a nice smooth pilot, not damaged or displaced. The pilot supports the input shaft, dowels center the transmission/bell housing to the crank.

 

[Dave M]

GCroyle thanks for your responses. I really hated doing what I did. On hindsight, I should have backed the transmission out and checked alignment of the clutch with the flywheel (which my son had done for me... so I don't know if he did it correctly) but after so many long hours working alone on this thing I was cold, tired, and frustrated. I do appreciate my sons help but not doing these steps myself leaves room for doubt for me.



I do appreciate your comments. I asked my wife today how the truck drove and she said it was great, although I drove it more than her. I believe most of the problem before the job was a failing hydraulic cylinder which was causing the gears to grind when shifting. The clutch pedal had to be pushed to the floor and it still would grind. Of course the clutch was also soaked in oil due to (I think) a leaking crank rear seal.



Anyhow, time will tell if the shifting improves. I'll post results this weekend after a few more miles on it.



Thanks,

Dave

 

[Dave M]

I put about 300 miles on the new clutch. My wife thinks it shifts fine. I still notice It shifts notchy but its not bad. It may just me me being paranoid about pulling the transmission on with the bolts. I'll put some more miles on it and see.



It engages about maybe an inch from top of clutch pedal. There is a little play in the peddle before that. I think the pedal is fine.



I've been waiting for the new clutch to put in the #10 plate, 3GSK and up the timing to 16 degrees... . I can't wait to see what that does for my power. I'll update next weekend after a few more miles on the clutch.



Dave