Engine/Transmission (1998.5 - 2002) Need Some TDR Wisdom

[DieselMinded]

OK lets say its 10* F outside ,,,, you jump in your truck thats been setting out side all night ... . insert key in ignition and turn it to ON , What does the truck DO to remove the Wait to start light ?



To my knowlage the ECm reads the air temp through the IAT the Intake heater grid under the AIR HORN kicks on and when its up to tempature the IAT tells the ECM "were Good" then the ECM kicks the WTS light off !



There are kits avalible to put on your truck to stop the intake heater from cycling when the engine is warm ... . why does it cycle anyway does the IAT tell the ecm we need some heat ?????



Are there heaters... ... . in the block at all ? I dont think so .



There is suppose to be a soft plug on the block where you can insert a block heater ?? is this true ?



At what tempature is it bad to run with no intake heater ?



Im lost on how exactly the Cummins runs W/o Glow plugs you would think alot more more be required than just some hot grate/fins in the air horn ?



Enlighten Me



Please



DM

 

[johncameron]

Yes you can put a block heater in. I have one. Exactly where it is, I don't know as it came from the factory like that.



I don't think our trucks will start at 10F without the grid heaters.



Others should be able to answer the other q's



John

 

[DieselMinded]

When you plug in the cord is it just heating the air horn grids ???????????????????



DM

 

[Graphic man]

Chad

the block heater goes in a freeze plug hole



not sure at what temp the truck would not start if the heaters didn't work, i think the kit your are talking about is the heaters will still work below a certain temp (i think it reads water temp) and when is see a certain temp it will stop the heaters from turning on



i plug in my block heater at around 10 deg. F or -15C here in the cold zone :-laf :-laf

 

[Graphic man]

When you plug in the cord is it just heating the air horn grids ???????????????????



DM

no, it warms up the water in the block

 

[Gary - K7GLD]

When you plug in the cord is it just heating the air horn grids ???????????????????



DM

No, that cord powers a heating element inside the water jacket, and that heats the coolent and the engine block.



It draws roughly 700 watts or so, some guys plug theirs into timers to switch the power on a couple of hours before the truck is to be driven to conserve power - others in colder climates (Arctic), often must leave them plugged in any time the truck is shut down for significant periods of time.



The heaters came standard on 1st and 2nd generation trucks, and as an option on 3rd generation trucks as I understand...

 

[dslmacdown]

When you plug in the cord is it just heating the air horn grids ???????????????????



DM

No, the plug in block heater warms coolant to warm up the block, head, and everything else. When you turn the key on when it is cold. The ECM reads the IAT and runs the grid heaters for predetermined amount of time based on temp. The grids heat the air inside the intake manifold so when the engine turns over it gets a big gulp of warm air to start with. I have started mine down into the low 30's without the grids but colder temps I cycle for 5, 10, or 15 secs depending on temp. Does that help?

 

[ctd8999]

Block heater

DM, the block heater heats the coolant in the block. Thanks Steve B.

 

[DieselMinded]

What heater directly controls the wait to start light ?



Block heater??



Intake Heater ??



Both ??



The block heater ... ... is it a set series of grids lining the block ?? or is it finger heaters ??



See This .....

Couldnt of went worst !!!!!!!!!!



Just worked 4 12hr days had my one day off today then back in for 2 more , Got up at 8 am made the cummute to Best Buy in heath (about 40Mins) waited 30 mins before they would let me in the install bay ,,,, got in the guys starts feeding me BS ... . well we will have to use this thing here ,,,it was a key box that reads the chip in the key and bypasses the start system thing,,, I told him NO YOU DONT HAVE TO USE THAT MY KEY DONT HAVE A CHIP !!! he tried to feed me some BS and I Got right back to him ,,,,,,, Then he brakes DOWN ,,,,,, and says look man ill be honest with you i have no idea how to install this on your truck !!!!! WTF !!!!!!!! I said dude I called you yesturday and verified the appointment and talked to you and now you dont know how to do it WTF !!!!!!! He said i can bring it back tomarrow for the master tech to do the install I said no way I cant CALL HIM IN today !!!! he called no answer ,,,, I asked him to call the Lancaster store about 20 miles SW ,,,,they said they can do it ,. ,,,,, I told my wife (WAITING IN THE PARKING LOT ) to follow me , commuted over ,,,, and talked to the install guy and he said 2 hrs and it will be done 5 hrs later I get the call I show up and get the truck and he tells me he had some trouble getting the GLOW PLUGS hooked up WTF!!!!!! I dont even have glow plugs there intake heaters but they may be wired the same and what not ,,,,,,,, I pull out and whats this CEL !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! STEAMMING i call him over and tell him my CEL is on he said he didnt have a clue ,,,,m OH MY GOD IM GOING TO KILL SOMEONE !!!!!!!!!!! HE said Best buy will cover any expences ,,,,



I drop by Auto Zone and the code was intake heater malfunction or something close !!!! had the dude clear the codes and He didnt even do it right case it didnt go out for a second !!!!!!!



Got home All Pizzed off and disconnected the neg termelals for 5 mins then put them back on and the CEL is still on ... .



I cant tell if the starter is waiting for my WTS light or not the motors hasnt been cooled off yet ,,,,



I came in the house and Im waiting for the motor to chill and ill try to see if the heaters are working ,,,,



then ill check and see if the Remote start is waiting on the light .



and go from there ...



maybe he crossed some wires at first then got them right but the code allready set ,,,Im hopeing



If not Im not sure what to do other than taking it to CVZ or some other shop to fix the install ,,



I should of listened to you guys in the first place



Now my truck may be Down



BTW he didnt even hook up the turbo timer control switch or the valet mode but its pretty strait foward ill do that my self



WHAT TO DO ??????



DM

from .....



https://www.turbodieselregister.com/forums/showthread.php?t=142041



A punk messed up my wiring and now im hosed !!!!!



Help



DM

 

[Gary - K7GLD]

What heater directly controls the wait to start light ?



Block heater??



Intake Heater ??



Both ??



The block heater ... ... is it a set series of grids lining the block ?? or is it finger heaters ??





DM

The block heater inside the engine block uses a heating rod/element much like one in an electric water heater.



The intake grid heater "controls" nothing - it is *controlled*, turned on/off by the engine computer, which receives sensor input from several engine sources that decide when, and how long/often the grid heaters should cycle...

 

[dslmacdown]

Grid heater in intake manifold tied into wait to start light



Block heater screws into water jacket of block, runs on 120V, warms up entire engine for sub zero temps.

 

[Gary - K7GLD]

Grid heater in intake manifold tied into wait to start light

In other words, when the grid heaters get power, so does the wait to start light - the light itself "controls" nothing...

 

[DieselMinded]

So the grid heater controls the Wait to start light .



There must be 3 commands sent from the IAT



1-Wait to start IAT reads tempature cooler than Set Point

2-Wait to start light DEFEAT Tempature has reached set point

3-Kick on and off To obtain intake tempatures above a cetian set point above the wait to start light DEFEAT set point



Now... .



I hear my intake heaters cycling



So does that mean there working ??



The installer told me he had trouble with the install ,,, im thinking he had the wires hooked up a few diffrent ways before he got it right . .



I have CEL and the code i cant remember but it was assoeated with the intake heater voltage... . if it is hooked up incorrectly now am i doing more damage by driving it to work in the AM ?????



Is it possiblke he hit the wrong wires poped the code then corrected it but the ecm is still holding the code and there is no problem ???



If the code is still active would the heaters still cycle??



thanks a ton guys



Im kind of irate at the min and iu have the coperate contact info of best buy not sure what im going to do about it yet



DM

 

[DieselMinded]

I cant get the motor cooled to the point where the WTS light is staying on ... I cant test the starters interation with the WTS light being off before firing ,,, it will have to wait till 330 am

 

[Mundgyver]

Last January in McCall, Idaho I started my truck without the assist of the block heater being plugged in. I cycled my grid heaters 3 times in succession before starting the truck. Temp outside was -25 static temp with a 10 mph wind for what ever the chill factor was. It started 1st attempt with no problems. I let it idle for 5 minutes before I slowly drove to town.



Thank god of seat heater

 

[DieselTweaker]

I don't think our trucks will start at 10F without the grid heaters.



John

My truck has no problem starting up in 0* weather,,,, with now grid heater or block heater.



I've started many diesel's including large one's in below freezing weather that hasnt been started in day's with no glow plugs or heater's.



I added the block heater to cut warm up time

 

[DieselMinded]

Zack the budgit bomber is running the powerbloc still and it smokes like hell at start up and misses and everything . .



I HOPE MY TRUCK DONT DO THAT TOMARROW !!!!1



Ill wake up ... . walk to the window ... . hit start and if it fires right up IM HOSED i want it to wait a little after the parking lights flash before it fires .



Best case ... . I hit the start it flashes and waits about 30 seconds then fires . .



Worst case I hit start and the truck catchs fire , or starts up imediatly and misses and blows white smoke ,,,then Ill be driving the



CTD IS DOWN YODA MISTER LIMP MODE RIG to work

 

[Gary - K7GLD]

So the grid heater controls the Wait to start light .



There must be 3 commands sent from the IAT



1-Wait to start IAT reads tempature cooler than Set Point

2-Wait to start light DEFEAT Tempature has reached set point

3-Kick on and off To obtain intake tempatures about a cetian set point above the wait to start light DEFEAT set point



Now... .



I hear my intake heaters cycling



So does that mean there working ??



The installer told me he had trouble with the install ,,, im thinking he had the wires hooked up a few diffrent ways before he got it right . .



I have CEL and the code i cant remember but it was assoeated with the intake heater voltage... . if it is hooked up incorrectly now am i doing more damage by driving it to work in the AM ?????



Is it possiblke he hit the wrong wires poped the code then corrected it but the ecm is still holding the code and there is no problem ???



If the code is still active would the heaters still cycle??



thanks a ton guys



Im kind of irate at the min and iu have the coperate contact info of best buy not sure what im going to do about it yet



DM

The "clicking" you hear is the grid heater relays - THEY are keyed/controlled by the computer, and provide the heavy current the grid heaters draw.



There's a possibility someone tried to start the truck with the grid heaters or relays disconnected, or not connected correctly - that can trigger the CEC light, and it won't go off until the engine has gone thru 3 separate start/warmup cycles - simply disconnecting the battery won't do it.

 

[johncameron]

This is what my CTD looks like at -40! It was not plugged in and it had been sitting for 12hrs+ prior to starting. I had my snow scraper jammed in the throttle to get my "high idle" at 1300rpm too!



John

 

[DieselMinded]

I got to run Ill keep this updated thanks for all the help guys... .

There's a possibility someone tried to start the truck with the grid heaters or relays disconnected, or not connected correctly - that can trigger the CEC light, and it won't go off until the engine has gone thru 3 separate start/warmup cycles - simply disconnecting the battery won't do it.

Sounds good ... .



Dont you just hate it when someone violates your truck ,,,,,, Atleast if i did it I would have an idea of how to fix it . .



I should of installed it myself



StuPid !!!!!!



DM