Engine/Transmission (1998.5 - 2002) Need some Trans advice

[EFielding]

Deezul...

Aha, the infamous lift pump eh? Had mine replaced about 6K ago.



Well, as you may have read, my "fix" lasted a total of one week! I took the truck in this morning (trip #5). As you surmised, I've had 18-02-99 done twice. Worked for a while, but... ...



I'm JUST about ready to crank out a letter to DC, but I'm not sure that it would do any good.



Don, dealer told me that he also, was able to determine a potential problem with the truck running (in drive and moving) and the DRB connected. However, once at rest, at idle, they cannot reproduce the fault.



And the beat moves on... .



I'll keep you posted.



Ed

 

[BBradley]

TC lock/unlock

Just an update on my TC lock/unlock. After dealer flashed ECM twice and PCM once, they replaced the TPS and still working great after 1,000 milesOo. For some reason like inarush states, after X amount of time or miles, we have a problem!!!!!! It sounds planned to me. Software can cause many strange problems with electronics. Good Luck

 

[deezuldon]

trannies, damn trannies

Ed:



Maybe you can get the attention of someone at the "zone". (Regional service management?) Should be a name/number in back of owner's manual? Letter to DC would probably get lost in the Ivory Tower halls, and would be months - if at all - before you get a response. More likely to get something done at a more local level, then at least you're playing their game "by the rules". Direct 'em to the TDR site and this thread if they need further evidence. If there's a few of us here talkin' about it, how many are there out there that are experiencing the same thing that we - and DC - don't have a clue about?



(Part of the problem might potentially be that DC doesn't know the answer either. Assuming that they're aware that it is a problem with more than just a truck or two. Then it might be that the only thing they can do is continue to "throw parts at the problem" in attempt to placate their product's owners. Which is OK to some degree if they're popping for the parts and labor, but still wouldn't account for the downtime and frustration of draggin' the trucks to the dealer all the time.



Can't believe it'd be any different with an F250 Ferd for example. I work with Cummins and CAT with electronic engine controls on the marine end, and you'd be surprised at the small number of people within the corporate organizations that really understand the finite details of their own electronics. THEY wind up throwing parts at the problems many times!



Howdja like to own one of the new GM trucks with an Isuzu diesel and have electronic problems? There aren't enough of them out to even begin to spot a trend... you'd really be screwed. At least in this case, we have numbers - and years - on our side!)



I'll keep you all posted, too. Appreciate the support. Keep hangin'... .



Don

 

[RobbyRam]

Has anybody ever replaced the 'governor solonoid' for the hunting problem? That solved my 'hunting' problem.

 

[deezuldon]

Governor solenoid?

Robby:



Governor solenoid?



Define please? Is that an internal transmission part or something to do with PCM?



Thanks -



Don

 

[EFielding]

Deezul

Howdy Bub.



Got the truck back today. Dealer had it for the past two days, trying to figure out what's going wrong.



What thaey DID do is to relocate the alternator ground, relocate the ground wire that runs thru the harness AND, they installed a "tell-tale". Little electronic recording box that connects to the DRB port at the dash. Has a small box (1"x1"x6") with a botton and is connected to the recorder. When this thing starts to cough and choke, press the button and it's supposed to record that incident. Has enough memory for three events. No time limit on use, bring it back after recording three incidents. Willing to try!



How about you? Solve your problem? Still looking?



I saw the msg from Robby, and I too, am at a loss. Not sure what the "govenor solenoid" is. Gotta go look in my manual.



Will get back to you.



Ed

 

[deezuldon]

You're ahead of me....

Ed:



You're ahead of me at this point! My truck still sits at the dealer awaiting a replacement lift pump. Been 5 working days now, and it's getting old. Not their fault that the first replaced lift pump (under warranty) failed, but you certainly know the feeling. It sucks!



Don't know what they're going to find, but betcha a dozen donuts the lift pump ain't gonna fix it. Then what? "We'll call STAR". ? And if they don't have a clue?



Whose idea is the "telltale"? Sounds like something a cardiologist puts on a heart patient to track an arrythmia problem. Maybe that's what it'll take.



Will post as soon as there are new developments... .



Good luck and let me know, too.



Thanks -



Don

 

[work2muchplay2little]

Well guys, I'm in the same boat as you all (that's y'all for my fellow Texans ). I've got the erratic TCC problem. Mine has been "fixed" about 4 times now by me with different maneuvers that have proved only temporary. These include cleaning the APPS connector (2x), cleaning the battery terminals, checking for AC voltage from the alternator, replacing the APPS and MAP sensor, and now I have an appointment with the dealer for the 18-02-99 PCM reflash. I talked to Bill Kondolay and he suggested pulling the APPS wires out of the harness that runs down the side of the block to the ECM. I haven't tried that yet as it looks like a major PITA. I also haven't tried cleaning up the grounds for the PCM or alternator - might do that this week. It's strange how the problem is intermittent. Bill indicated that the PCM reflash makes the PCM more tolerant of voltage variability from the APPS. One other thing, along with the TCC hunting, I have a delay in my 3-4 shift whenever the TCC hunting thing is going on. I can force it to shift by running the RPM up to the governor, or just wait for it to shift by driving at constant speed for 3-6 miles. Anyone had this issue?

 

[EFielding]

Deezul,

Well, you're not too off the mark. Similar to a heart monitor. Same principal, anyway.



I can "almost" guarantee that a new lift pump won't cure the problem. Mine was replaced about 6K ago, and.....



And, as to the 'pressure solenoid" that Robby referred to; the BOOK says on page 14-44 that the solenoid 'regulates transmission fluid line pressure to produce pressure necessary for transmission shift control'. Whew! Sections 21-159 and 21-274 describe removal and replacement. I don't want to go there!



Work2much, I've been there and done all that, as has Dezul. No help. BUT, i did sugget to the tech today about pulling the TPS wires away from the harness, referring to the ambient electronic hash noise that interferes with the TPS signal. He LISTENED!! Said that that may be a fix, but wanted to try the tell-tale first. At least he didn't tell me that I was full of S**t.



Reading these messages gives one an education. At least I can go in and tell him something plausible instead of something brilliant like "my truck don't run too gud"



We'll see.



Ed

 

[BBradley]

Ed, Deezl

My local dealer also attached the recording box and I pushed the button every time TC would lock/unlock. Come to find out the dealer's computer was not updated to accept any recording I had tried to do!!!!!!!!! I noticed when they turned their computer on, their system used Netscape 3!!!!! I think they are a little behind time and could not update their computer on line.

I'm happy that replacing the TPS has fixed my problem. Since repair, I have put 1200 miles on truck with no problems plus more power from flashing PCM and ECM.

Good luck everyone. This is very much a PITA!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[Pit Bull]

This seems to be a 99 CTD truck problem. How did they change the transmission in 00 that might give a clue to what is wrong with the 99's.

 

[emjay]

Ed,



When you say hunt between 4th and overdrive, do you mean the torque converter clutch (TCC) is locking and unlocking, or it is shifting between 3rd and 4th? (4th is overdrive) The governor pressure solenoid affects shift points, but not overdrive or the TCC, they are contolled by the PCM.

 

[deezuldon]

More transmission poo...

Emjay, I'm gonna jump in here for Ed, and answer your question - I have experience! (Ed say so if I'm wrong in your case!) The TCC locks and unlocks. Not a downshift issue at all. Just TCC unlocking and relocking - incessantly - until the throttle pressure is too great (load on the engine?) or you get above or below that magical 42 - 50 MPH (1200-1500 RPM approx. ). Then all is fine.



(By the way. Switching off the overdrive function solves the problem temporarily at the 42-50 MPH range. But once the speed drops down into that 1200-1500 rpm range in 3rd - which is somewhere around 30-35 MPH - the TCC does exactly the same thing in 3rd that it does in 4th! It's rpm related, and not affected by the gear it's in. )



Work2Much: No delay in upshift - from 3rd to 4th. But on occasion, a good bump, like going over a bad expansion joint on the freeway will unlock the TCC, and sometimes it needs help to "relock". Interesting that it seems to need a slight increase in load or rpm to lock again. This is at freeway speeds, 65-70 MPH, probably around 1850 rpms +/-. Much different than a downshift to third, or an upshift from 3rd to overdrive. If the stereo's turned up, may not notice the TCC unlock except for taco-meter needle. RPM increase is probably, I don't know, 150 rpms, when TCC unlocks.



I have noticed that this begins to occur more frequently when the TCC problem begins to rear it's ugly head again. It gets progressively worse over a couple weeks. Like something (wiring connection?) is slowly deteriorating. Been through the ground thing, and should have enough ground connection to eliminate that. What else?



Gotta feeling DC doesn't know either... .

 

[EFielding]

Emjay,

Don is right on the money. His symptoms are exactly the same as I experience in my truck



I don't recall any upshift problems. Once over the 'magic numbers' (42-50 mph) all is fine. Hopefully, the tell-tale will give the tech the needed info.



BBradley, I HOPE we (Don and I) DON'T have a dealer with software problems Wouldn't that be ironic. Find the problem, but can't solve it due to antiquated software. Netscape 3 has been gone for how long? 4-5 years maybe?



Anyway, I'm on the road again Thursday to Kalifornia and back. We'll see what happens after a 400 mile run (which is usually when the problem starts).



Ed

 

[emjay]

IMO, they (DC) know they have a problem, but don't know how to fix it right. That's why there's a TSB that calls for a replacement separator plate (with a larger passage for the TCC circuit) and a PCM reflash to speed up the TC lock. Seems it was locking too slowly (or there was a sufficiently long delay in locking) that caused Calif. trucks to throw a code when the PCM didn't see the engine RPMs drop after a TCC lock event.



Like I said before, the dumb unlocking of the TCC at closed or light throttle is the culprit. All of the "big 3" manufacturers have this "feature" in their trannys. Drives me nuts.

 

[BBradley]

TC lock/unlock

I've been reading all the threads on this subject and haven't noticed if miles is part of the problem. My problem started at 45K. How does this match others out there?

 

[deezuldon]

Miles

BB:



Started at around 45K on mine (did reflash then), came back again around 55K or so, dealer said check ground wire to PCM. Did, cleaned both ends, re-attached, fixed problem. Until now at 65K, same problem again and this time it isn't ground. Did serious ground upgrade.



Still waiting to get truck back from dealer with new lift pump who thinks that old pump may have been creating problem? Will know soon.



Think I should start taking bets... . Can't offer much in the way of odds... are you in?



Good Luck!



Don

 

[BBradley]

deezuldon...miles

The bet would have to be lift pump not fixing it... ..... and back to dealer!!!!!!!!!

45K miles may be the starting point for a lot of problems. I hope I'm not coming back in 10K for a reflash. But for now, after 1200 miles since last repair of replacing TPS, I'm still running great.

 

[deezuldon]

Bets are off!

I just heard from the dealer.



Guess what?



New pump installed... didn't fix the problem!



WHAT A SURPRISE!



STAR (whoever the h*** that is? DC?) gave 'em a list as long as your arm on things to check. They want 4 hours labor (on me) to check it out. And what if they don't find it?



S**T! Isn't this great? A million-mile engine surrounded by 45K mile components!



DAMN!

 

[BBradley]

4hours labor

That figures, they have a problem and you have to pay them to find it because it is in your truck and just happens to be out of warranty. SURPRISE SURPRISE

Remember one thing always, IT IS STILL AGAINST THE LAW TO KILL THE CROOKS



GOOD LUCK



Bob