Engine/Transmission (1998.5 - 2002) Need some Trans advice

[BFC]

Well i got minr reflashed today, it worked for now well see how long it last. Reminded me why I hate the dealers.....



I walk in taled to the service manager AND writer and tell 'em "my transmission jump in and out of lock up at 45/50, I need the reflash 18-02-99 bla bla bla how much" They say 32. 50$, cool! I get the bill... 65$ for diagnostic + 32. 50$ for the reflash They say we have to charge the standard it's the rule... ... ... ... I do the leg work and I pay them for it and they wonder why I do all the work I can on the truck.



Glenn

 

[emjay]

Intermittent sensors & MIL

Rattlnrench has raised an impotant point here, and that is that the vehicle PCM is designed to operate in "less-than-optimal" circumstances. It usually will not throw a code unless something is completely failed, either temporarily or permanently. The APPS/TPS is basically a potentiometer (like a volume knob on a stereo) it can get really noisy when moving, and then quiet down when it stops moving. This is the exact same failure mode that I'm sure some of you have experienced with old stereos that scratch and/or cut out when adjusting the volume. Add to that the electrically noisy and thermally harsh environment that the TPS/APPS operates in, and it becomes apparent that the signal quality is marginal at best by the time it reaches the PCM.



Also -- the TPS signal is shared by the Cummins ECM. Engine failures (that I know of) caused by the APPS/TPS are much fewer in incidence. Do manual trans equipped trucks have such a high incidence of TPS/APPS failures? The main complaint seems to be the automatic transmission, not the engine. It goes without saying that Cummins produces one of the (if not the) finest diesel engines, and it may very well be that the DC PCM (Made by Motorola, incidentally) can not adequately filter or average the TPS signal in sub-optimal environments, resulting in erratic transmission behavior.

 

[KRobinson]

For the record

For the record mine was built in the USA. Guess that blows that theory.



I am pretty tied up this week, but will probably next week try to get a local dealer to go for a ride with a monitor. Just to be clear do I need to tell him to monitor the PCM for faults on the APPS (TPS) and / or trans temp sensor etc?



I will be watching for the product announcement from Emjay's comany with great anticipation also!



I sure do appreciate all the discussions and inputs, probably could have saved a small fortune had I looked here months ago! Am staying tuned to this thread, good advice!

 

[Pit Bull]

Originally posted by BFC

Well i got minr reflashed today, it worked for now well see how long it last. Reminded me why I hate the dealers.....



I walk in taled to the service manager AND writer and tell 'em "my transmission jump in and out of lock up at 45/50, I need the reflash 18-02-99 bla bla bla how much" They say 32. 50$, cool! I get the bill... 65$ for diagnostic + 32. 50$ for the reflash They say we have to charge the standard it's the rule... ... ... ... I do the leg work and I pay them for it and they wonder why I do all the work I can on the truck.



Glenn

Glenn, You need to call the GM and complain. You did the diagnostic and they quoted you $32. 50 for the work. There is no "standard" in a small business, it's called what the market will bear I'd tell the GM that they either send you back your $65 or you write a nasty letter to DC and try and get their 5 star rating revolked. His choice.

 

[EFielding]

Deezul and Folks...

Have you guys looked at this thread???





https://www.turbodieselregister.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=55184

 

[Piston Slapper]

18-02-99 Reflash

Mine started acting up and 67,000. Now has 95,000. No problems to date. Mine started with the 1-2 no shift, when cold only. After the weather warmed up it started the TCC hunt only in overdrive intermittently, drove out of overdrive fixed it for a few days or a few hundered miles. It then started hunting in or out of OD. Found this website ! Cleaned TPS, to cheap to get reflash done. Nada. Got reflash. All is well for 28,000 miles. Cross your fingers!



One thing that always confused me is the DC says they know it is electrical noise. How do they know? If they know what the problem is, then why can't they fix it?? Well, they know the Lift pump is a problem and they ain't fixed that yet! Maybe they don't know it is electrical? Although it seems to me to be. Maybe that's all DC does know is that is seems to be electrical.

 

[deezuldon]

THE "OTHER" THREAD

Ed:



No. Hadn't seen that thread, been away for a bit. But thanks for bringing it up. Went over there and looked, pretty much a parallel to what we've been working on over here! I posted an invitation to come over and read this book (thread)!



Seems like there's more and more of us! Think Emjay's got a bright future with his new magic box... unless DC gets smart and figures out a fix... . Naw! Sorry! Must have been hallucinating again!



Been a little over 2K miles since the last (second) reflash, and nary a hiccup. Fingers so tightly crossed knuckles are dying from lack of blood circulation... .



How about it Ed? Any startling revelations in AZ?



Has anybody tried to keep count on how many of us are having this TCC lock/unlock problem? I think "we got us a convoy"!



Deezuldon

 

[tking]

I started the other thread. Thanks Deezuldon for pointing this thread out.



Mine seems to have been fixed by disconnecting the batt. for a while, then relearning the APPS. Haven't put many miles on it since though.



I don't understand this APPS cleaning business. I had mine off and it's a sealed unit. Or are you just cleaning the connectors?



Is there anyone who has rerouted the APPS wires outside the main harness?



I'm very afraid it's not a perment fix.



Todd

 

[EFielding]

Deezul

Hey Don,



Been away a while myself. MAYBE GOOD NEWS? Last time I had my truck in (prior to the tell-tale) the wiring to the TPS was rerouted across the front of the engine, AND, so far, no problems. I haven't had a cough or choke for that past 2500 miles.



Maybe this (along with a reflash?) would do the job? However, I haven't had the 18-02-99 reflash (or at least there's no sticker on the radiator crossmember support), so I'm not sure if this would contribute to the fix. I DO know that since the wiring was relocated, there's been no problem. And you? Same same? Running OK?



Lemme know.



Ed

 

[deezuldon]

So far....

Ed:



Just made a short 350 mile roundtrip today up coast to Santa Barbara. No problems. I just hope it stays that way! I'm so damn (anal?) paranoid about it happening again, I think I could hear a hiccup over the WFO stereo!



One of the things that was suggested along the way was moving the wires out of the loom. Eliminate any possibility of "cross talk". Got the feeling that maybe every truck's a little different? If it was one repeatable circumstance, that everybody was dealing with - somebody (including DC) would have figured it out by now! (And this thread wouldn't be as long as it is!)



Apparently it doesn't take much noise to drive the PCM nuts. If you're OK with it the way it is, I wouldn't do the reflash until it needs it. My first reflash only lasted 10K miles. Don't "spend it" until you need it!



TKing:



Welcome to this side! (The dark side?) As far as the APPS/TPS goes, as I understand it anyway, one of the easy things to check is the wire connections to the APPS. If there's any corrosion or crud on 'em, it might affect the voltage. And all these electronics are driven by voltage. And miniscule changes can make the PCM do something different than it might otherwise with correct voltage, almost like a wrong signal.



As far as the internal workings of the APPS, I believe that it's a fairly simple potentiometer inside. The wiper is subject to the same thing as the external wiring connections, except that it's in more of a sealed environment, so in theory anyway, dirt/crud shouldn't be an issue. But mechanical wear is. Once again if the voltage sensed by the PCM that comes from the APPS ain't what it's 'sposed to be, it might be read as a different "command".



Unfortunately there's a whole world of possibilities for electrical problems, noise, etc. Which is what makes it a b-tch for us individually or for the dealer to find!



Emjay's the expert on this stuff much more than I. He has a trick new aftermarket "magic box" that's due to come out soon that may resolve this issue - external of Dodge's engineering, of course. Keep your eyes here, there'll be more discussion about that I'm sure as time goes on!

 

[emjay]

I thought I'd chime in here just to remind all of us of one interesting fact. The Cummins ECM never seems to have a problem with the APPS/TPS. The reported problem is always (at least in my experience) a transmission complaint. The part that is interesting is that they share the same APPS/TPS signal!



If anyone out there is currently experiencing erratic downshifting and/or TCC spastic locking and unlocking (other than the normal "dumb unlock" when you let off the pedal), PM me, I may have a quick fix for you to try. No, it is not the so-called "magic box" although that product can probably cure that ill because it uses the TPS signal too, and filters it both digitally and analogically (if that's a word). It is something much simpler. It would involve cutting and splicing two wires near the PCM, so if you're nervous about that, don't try it. I'm not selling anything here, all I ask in return is some detailed note-taking.

 

[curatchko]

Man I shouldn't post this after reading ya'lls problems, but my 99 has a pretty good trans and convertor. Zero problems other than the damn convertor won't UNLOCK very easily even when I mash it to the floor pulling 11000 pounds. Can't complain about that though.



KNOCK ON WOOD.



It shifts pretty hard though... . but that's better than a soft shift I guess... . for the clutchs.

 

[deezuldon]

Well how is it?

Ed:



How about it? Are we fixed? I have close to 4k miles on mine since the last reflash... no hiccups!



Fingers very tightly crossed!



How you doin'?



deezuldon

 

[tking]

I've got about 3k on mine since relearning the AAPS. So far so good.



If it goes south I'll let you know.



Todd

 

[BBradley]

still happy

Don,

Glad your are still cruising along. I too have had NO problems for the last 5K miles since flashing and replacing the TPS. The Dealer is happy too they don't have to see me coming back. Oo.

Bob

 

[deezuldon]

Hey Ed!

Hey Ed Fielding!



You still out there in central AZ?



transmission still working? TCC still staying locked?



Inquiring minds want to know... .



Deezuldon

 

[work2muchplay2little]

6K since TPS reflash - still working great!

 

[deezuldon]

Me too....

I'm pusing 6K since my last PCM reflash... no hiccups.



It's almost scary!



But that's a good thing.



Maybe we can all go on to something else someday and forget about TCCs locking / unlocking!



Fingers still crossed!



deezuldon

 

[deezuldon]

Back to square one

For anybody that continues to follow this thread... .



After exactly sixty days and 5,506 miles since the last reflash, the PCM (or?) is back to the TCC locking and unlocking. This time the range is from 42 to 52 MPH. Last time it was just 42 - 50 MPH.



After the first reflash, the TCC was fine for around 20K miles. This time, 5500 miles. Next time?



This thread's been quiet for a while. Everybody else who was in on this get theirs successfully "fixed"? Do I stand alone?



Or is this still an issue for others, too?



Any input?



Thanks -



Deezuldon

 

[stseeber]

Just another 99 and I have had the same thing at the same speeds off and on since day one. (128k) My truck is bone stock and gets serviced every 3k with trans every 15k. I am on third lift pump, second apps and second oil pressure sender. I run two cell phones and one 100w transciever. Had TSB18-15-00 done at 58k when first lift pump went out. Looks like interference is getting th nod so far? Steve (with no answers) in N/Ca.