Engine/Transmission (1998.5 - 2002) Never Brag no problems-VP44 Dying!

[Wiredawg]

All:



I posted white smoke rough idle at startup yesterday. About a month ago I was saying this was the best most trouble free vehicle I've owned. It doesn't rank as most rouble free anymore, but I still like it. Like Paul Harvey say:" and here's the rest of the story:"



Well guys, got the bad news from two sources today: Cummins and my friendly neighborhood five-star. VP-44 is on its last legs. LP fuel pressure is stong (14. 5 lbs pre filter, 13 post filter). Just over 40K miles on the clock. Dealer requesting approval to replace VP-44 under warranty. Fingers crossed; will know Monday.



BTW: Check engine light never came on but I clicked key 3-times and it read ECM 1693 and PCM 217. Code 217 injection pump not responding to timing signal. I didn't know diagnostics on 02 read the PCM codes?



Well, all I can say is wahhhh!



Wiredawg

 

[Gary - K7GLD]

Did you use any fuel additive on a regular basis?



Sorry to hear about your problem - but you're right, doesn't pay to brag or get to feeling too invinceable...

 

[Wiredawg]

Gary:



I used Rotella addititve, but not for the past 3 - 4 months. I alway thought the source of dying/dead VP 44s was failing/failed lift pumps. There was absolutely no other symptoms. Lucky for me I wasn't on my way to May Madness already.



BTW, I took off the TST PM-3 so it would not interfere with diagnostics, but told the dealer I had it and bigger injectors. they are honest straight up folks and that's the only way to be.



Stuff happens, so I'm gonna make the best of it whether I get the pump replaced under warranty or whether I got to pay up.



Wiredawg

 

[Gary - K7GLD]

I'd probably do the same thing in regards to the Comp - not hide the Comp, but at least unplug stuff to return it to normal for their checks and evaluation - it would be obvious a box was added and normally in use, and I would fully expect to be refused warranty replacement - but might as well go thru the motions just in case...

 

[RobertMiller1]

lubricant

Gary,



Everything I have seen officially printed says don't use a lubricant/cetane additive. I have been running one until lately, but Chrysler/Cummins says not... not needed.



What additional info are you aware of?

 

[Scheibins]

Chrysler/Cummins say there is no problem with the lift pump too. HAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHA. Basstarrds.

 

[NevadaBackroader]

Just like everyone else, I have an opinion. Dealer replaced my VP-44 at 35,000 when I had it in for oil change. Every once in a while it would idle like an old chevy with a 3/4 race cam. Remember those? I was in the habit of running it until the low fuel light came on. After reading some posts on this forum, I wondered if the VP 44 problems can be caused by hot fuel. The more fuel in the tank, the more it acts like a heat sink. My wife now doesn't let it get below 1/2 tank... . so far no more problems.

 

[Wiredawg]

Interesting side-note

All: I was real surprised how much power the truck has w/ just the DDIIs. I may not reconnect the TST PM3 Adjustable after all is said and done. We'll see how she does going to may madness. I understand there is a hill or two between San Antonio and Las Vegas.



Wiredawg

 

[Gary - K7GLD]

"What additional info are you aware of?"



I consider the "best" info on the pumps comes from the guys who work on them daily - not some "designer" working in an office cubicle who NEVER works on them or gets out into the "real world"!



Virtually EVERY ONE of the several Bosch repair shop owners *I* have discussed the VP-44, without fail, recommend addition of a good quality lubricity additive to every drop of fuel that passes thru the pump, based upon the wear and failures THEY see daily - hell, Cummins themselves sell the stuff!



You hafta realize the Bosch pumps are used in other countries besides the USA - naturally, some have poorer fuel purity than we do - but a GREAT number of Bosch pumps are used in the European market, where diesel fuel quality and lubricity is enforced FAR better than in this country.



At a seminar held not too long ago here in California by Bosch, they were documented as clearly stating the need for better fuel quality and lubricity for their pumps than what is commonly available in this country, and revealed that in one of their own tests in this state, *80%* of the stations they tested for quality and lubricity fell well below their standards for use in their pumps - I lost that document when I changed to my latest PC, but posted it here before, and will see if I can replace it.



NOW, do you see why I *always* use additives in my truck - always have, always will!

 

[dpetre]

My injector pump died 3 weeks ago. At first I thought it was the just the lift pump so I replaced it with a FASS. The problem I was having was the truck would go from 65mph to 50 mph and then go back up to 65mph. The codes I got where 1693 and P0500. After reading some of the posts I figured I had a bad connect and a speed sensor was acting up. By accident I lucked out as a friend of mine had scheduled an appointment with the local dodge dealer and called my wife by mistake. The appoint was on my day off so I showed up. The tech plug in his tester and it said bad injector pump but the code did not show up when I did the turning the key on 3 times all that showed up was the 1693, The tech said there are to different electronic control systems in the truck and they some times do not communicate the codes to each other. The tech also said the winter low grade fuel that we use causes the seals to go out in the injector pumps. As the weather warms up and we are still using winter fuel the lack of lubricate to the pump causes failure. The dealer in Fairbanks sells a brand of additive but I do not know which brand. Good luck with your truck.

 

[Gary - K7GLD]

Here's a pointer to the Bosch fuel quality seminar I mentioned above:



http://www.arb.ca.gov/fuels/gasoline/meeting/2003/022003bosch.pdf

 

[RobertMiller1]

lubricant

Gary,



what lubricant do you use?

 

[jjohn]

Originally posted by Gary - KJ6Q

Did you use any fuel additive on a regular basis?

Stanadyne every fill up from day one... and still replaced my VP44 at 52K. I was very generous with the performance formula also, watched the fuel pressure and always filled up with 25-26 gals.



Some times VP$$'s just quit!

 

[PRout]

Seems like this injector pump problem is turning into an epidemic...

 

[Gary - K7GLD]

Not really an epidemic, buy we certainly get our fair share!



As to the brand *I* use, it's Power Service "Diesel Kleen" recommended by them where lubricity is more of a concern than sub-zero temps... But to be on the safe side, I also add the 2-stroke ashless synthetic oil as well - but being on extremely good terms with Murphy, mine will probably die early too...

 

[NevadaBackroader]

Ok, I read the Bosch stuff and looked at the pictures. I don't think a manufacturer is going to say you should use an additive every time you fill up to keep their product on the road. Instead, they will figure in the cost of warranty replacements into the price of the vehicle. I hate messing with additives. Does anybody make an oiler that would meter in the additive as you drive?

 

[Ajwalls]

Just this past Easter Sunday, had VP 44 failing at 47500 miles, while pulling a 9000 lbs travel trailer. Fuel pressure guage warned me and allowed me to limp to a New Mexico dealership. I am mentioning this so you know it was still under warranty, even after the service advisor saw all of the " extras" I had under the hood. Watching the fuel pressure guage sure gives a piece of mind. I hope the VP44 was on your 3500 and not your '03 (did not know of a VP44 on an '03).



Anyone knows of some aftermarket to replace the VP44 or a booster pump to take its place?



2001, SB, 4x4, Patriot Blue, Topper, 70 gal. aux. fuel tank, 3 guage piller post with Autometers- EGT, transmission, TB- Fuel pressure guage on steeting column, Double deep transmission pan, AFE Ram air cone, Edge Chip, BD Ehaust Brake, 4" Ehaust.

 

[Gary - K7GLD]

"Just this past Easter Sunday, had VP 44 failing at 47500 miles"



Looks to me like it was your *lift pump* that failed and was replaced, not your VP-44, based on your similar post in another thread...



"After the new fuel transfer pump was installed, my fuel pressure is up to 12-15 psi,"

 

[Wiredawg]

Yep, it's the 3500. Can't wait 'til tomorrow to hear they if they've got the pump ordered and on it's way. Gonn be cutting it close to leave for vaction on FRiday. The 03 is great but I don't have it set up to pull our 5th wheel. Too much hitch weight for a single rear wheel vehicle.



Wiredawg