New 05 death wobbler

[skorski]

Can anyone tell me if the death wobble has been fixed on the 05s Just orded a new one

 

[Bertram65]

DW is very rare in trucks with stock suspension, as long as you do not put in a leveling kit or lift kit you should not have any problem.

 

[curatchko]

No such thing as the death wobble on a dead stock truck.

 

[DIESELMAN]

WRONG! Fixed a BONE STOCK '04 with DW. 2,600 Miles, replaced Ball Joints that the dealer said were in spec and told him where to shove 'em. They refused to re-imburse us, so I bought my '04. 5 from another dealer and showed them the invoice for the lost sale, those bastiges! Drives perfect now.



Had a '98 DW at 15,000, stock.



There are lots of possibilities for DW; its inherent to the design and doesn't take much to set it off. The new Ford coil over will likely have this problem now too, just not as violent because of the higher torsion applied to the axle by their control arms, just like the old F-150's.



Modifications are usually the straw that breaks the camels back, but not the cause.

 

[DPelletier]

I was waiting for someone to chime in with DW in a stock truck.

I have experienced DW on several vehicles (not my 3re genners, so far), including a leaf sprung F-250 and a coil sprung F-150.

Nonetheless, I believe that Bertram 65 is right, it is a rare occurance in stock 3rd gen trucks. Likely caused by too little caster and some worn front suspension components. (worn ball joints can cause caster to change).

I wouldn't worry too much about DW when buying a new '05. My DW avoidance plan;

- no 2" front leveling kits!

- no lift kits

- no rear end leveling kits (i. e. reduced height kits for 5ers)

- stock size load range E tires

- periodic inspection of front end components (exp. ball joints)



If I still get DW, then any components that are worn will be replaced and I'll have a specialty alignment shop set the caster properly.



If you do a search and read all the DW posts, I think you'll find (as I have) that the vast majority of DW trucks have a 2" leveling kit (or some other lift kit) and larger, softer load range D tires. Usually BFG 315's, since they're the most common.



Cheers,

Dave

 

[Greg Boardman-RIP]

DW is very rare in trucks with stock suspension, as long as you do not put in a leveling kit or lift kit you should not have any problem.

I had a death wobble in my 03 with stock tires, stock ride hight... ... No mods.

 

[DIESELMAN]

Dave - Your right. I didn't mean to say that he's gonna have it, its just genetic to the design, but something has to be out of kilter for it to occur. The Ball joint on the '04 was 120 thousandths on the left and 15 on the right, measured from the knuckle top to the spindle about two inches out. Although I had no specs, there is no chance that this was correct.



But for a truck to have a 2" level installed or a lowered rear end, this won't alone cause the problem. There has to be something else wrong. I think the list is long and includes soft sidewalled tires, caster and caster stagger, drag link wear, track bar wear, ball joints, bushings on the top or bottom locating arms, wheel bearings, etc.



I do think that putting 315's on increases the loads on everything and as soon as or if one or more of these components allows the deviation to occur, the DW sets in.



When fixing the problem, if it seems a little better, you didn't fix it. It will be back. If it seems dramatically more stable, you found the problem.



I've had one cured with Caster adjust and one with worn ball Joints. I've chased through steering shocks, shocks, bushings, drag links, track bars etc. They all reduced it but I could always feel some loss of stability on freeway cracks potholes and bridges. But when I took care of the actual cause the front end just couldn't be upset no matter what.



My opinion, there is no one single demon here, just a bunch of spooks that don't get along well.

 

[Bertram65]

I had a death wobble in my 03 with stock tires, stock ride hight... ... No mods.

As I said very rare, you are probably the 1 in a 100 with the DW whos truck is stock, was it stock never modified when you had the DW or had you modified it and then put it back to stock?

 

[CAgnoli]

Is it true that if you put a complete leveling kit, meaning new shocks, springs, and whatever else is required, you can safely do it without experiancing the DW? I was told by a fellow TDR member that there is a 2" leveling kit that includes springs and shocks for less than 700, and I'd like to do it, if I can avoid the wobble.



C

 

[curatchko]

Somehow I have a very hard time believing it is happening with a stock truck. If it is occuring, there is something BROKEN. These all have the same suspension geometry EXACT SAME. So you guys are missing some parts, or it's been modded.

 

[Greg Boardman-RIP]

I personally went through this and the dealer tried every part available. The tires that came on my truck were a real crappy made Goodyear. 235/75/17. It was a DRW at that time. The sidewalls were real weak. The dealer tried as hard as they could to fix said problem. To no avail. Track Bar, shocks, springs, ball joints... ... You get the picture. It wasn't until I installed the KORE race system, and a set of Goodyear 37" MT/R's that the problem was fixed. The BFG 35" H2 takeoff tires made it even more evident. I mean, going down the same road, same speeds, next day, with the BFG's my truck would wobble anytime the surface became rough. 70+ mph is the sweet spot on most trucks. Day before with an "E" Rated ( most important factor so far) tire, no DW... !

I would suggest that you go ahead and get the truck but, before you take delivery of it, take it for a long (20 mile) test drive over some freeway that has a bit of bump to it. Make sure you stay at 75-80 mph. This will give you an idea of how your truck will perform. Then get a good front end leveling kit that is engineered by someone who knows how all this works. Make sure to have your truck aligned before you install the leveling kit. All should be fine then. I have no DW now, my truck can do 80 through 12 inch desert whoops!



Greg

 

[DPelletier]

Somehow I have a very hard time believing it is happening with a stock truck. If it is occuring, there is something BROKEN. These all have the same suspension geometry EXACT SAME. So you guys are missing some parts, or it's been modded.

Well Greg and others have reported it in stock trucks and I have no reason to question thier information. As Bertram65 and I have said, it IS rare in a stock truck. I suspect that trucks are coming off the assembly line (or lines) with caster settings within a wide "acceptable range". Trucks on the outside of this range are more likely to manifest DW once something else wears enough to allow it.

I also think Greg is right about tires being very important, although I think its the geometry/caster settings that make DW possible in the first place.

Dieselman,

I agree with your contention that several conditions contribute to DW. I have posted my hypothesis on this before, but here goes;



- 1) The factory geometry is very finicky as far as caster settings are concerned.

- 2) The factory caster settings are not precise enough

- 3) changes or wear can change caster settings in a negative way (eg. 2" leveling kits, worn ball joints)

- 4) If there are problems with the caster settings due to the above, the condition for DW is set and it now awaits a weak link or links to manifest itself. Things like, weak tires; worn suspension components; worn steering stabilizers, etc.



You will find that many people will report different "cures" for the DW and I believe that many of them have just closed the "path of least resistance" and solved the problem FOR NOW, without addressing the underlying issue. In these instances DW is now dormant and waiting for something else to wear to allow it to manifest itself. (If it sounds like I'm attributing personality to DW, it is because the analogy is easier that way!)



My suggestions are to avoid using the 2" leveling kit, especially without changing the caster settings and also to avoid lighter duty tires. Generic lift kits are probably a bad idea and although I haven't enough information on the Kore/T-Rex system, it sounds as though this is a top-notch system that has likely addressed DW.



Cheers,

Dave



ps. Disclaimer: I'm not a suspension expert or an alignment specialist. My opinion on the matter has been formulated solely by personal experience and the analyzation of the experiences of others. Take it for what its worth.

 

[DPelletier]

I actually had a rather heated exchange with a guy who put on a set of load range C tires on his CTD recently. While load ratings aren't the only thing to consider when choosing a tire, I believe he has seriously compromised the safety and stability of his truck and greatly increased the likelyhood of DW. His tires max out at 35psi and are overloaded as soon as a passenger climbs in his truck. Greg's comparison of his truck with the 35" D rated BFG All terrains vs. the same truck with E rated MTR's would seem to reinforce the contention that lighter duty tires contribute to the problem.



Dave

 

[RustyJC]

Of course, another way to avoid death wobble is to buy a 2WD truck. I've never experienced it on our 4x2 1996 3500 or our 4x2 2002 3500, nor do I expect to.



Rusty

 

[DPelletier]

Of course, another way to avoid death wobble is to buy a 2WD truck. I've never experienced it on our 4x2 1996 3500 or our 4x2 2002 3500, nor do I expect to.



Rusty

Yep, I forgot that solution!



Dave