New 5th wheel towing questions

[CoastyAV8R]

My wife and I just bought a 34' Tailgator toy hauler 5th wheel and since I am coming from a conventional travel trailer, I have a few questions.

First I was concerned if I would be overloading the truck. Trailer weighs 8900 lbs dry, I know they are optimistic with their weights but I still figure I'm in there as the only toys we haul are motocross bikes. Sound good?

Second is how high the rear of my 2001 QC 4x4 sits, I dont think I'll have enough clearance between the truck and the trailer. I am aware of the TSB to lower the rear end and I think this is what I'm gonna do. I'm not gonna have Dodge do it, but I'm gonna put blocks in that are 2" shorter. I would think I could keep my overload springs in place, but I wonder about the brake proportioning valve arms since I have rear drum brakes .

How much clearance should I keep between the top of the truck bed and the trailer on flat ground? I'm thinkin' 5" might do it...

Finally my stock mirrors were barely adequate for our other travel trailer, I know they won't work for this 5th wheel. I gather that the stock towing mirrors are pretty hard to beat, and I like the fact they just bolt on. I am open to other suggestions as well as a source to buy the Dodge mirrors without getting raped.

Oh yeah, can I keep my stock tailgate or do I have to get one of the "5th wheel" tailgates?



Thanks in advance,

Pat

 

[KenHokie]

Pat, 5 - 6" between the truck bed and the bottom of your trailer should be OK. It really depends on how much off roading you intend to do with the trailer. Instead of lowering the truck, have you looked into "flipping" the axles on the trailer? Doing this will raise the trailer 4 - 5". This what I had done to my Wilderness and it clears the bed fine. I went with one of those louvered 5th wheel tail gates with the V notch in the middle. Mostly because I have seen too many tail gates with a dent in the middle from forgetting to open them before pulling out from under the 5th wheel. As for the mirrors, the towing mirrors are good but I installed a rear vision video camera in the back of my trailer and a 6" LCD monitor in the cab so that I can see what's behind my trailer. It makes a good marriage saver when backing into camp sites. I see you live in Lincoln, I used to live in Nevada City. I miss the foothills but I don't miss the high price of fuel in CA.

 

[Fireman]

Pat,



That is a pretty nice little unit you have there. Got one just like it!



First, mine weighs in at 10,500# and a pin weight of 2300# loaded, but without toys. The pin weight is a little high because they moved the axles back to carry the weight of the toys you might put in the rear.



Second, truck to trailer clearence. I used to haul mine with a 2500 QC 4WD, I raised the pin box on the trailer to the highest setting (that lowers the trailer) and when I put the weight on the truck, the truck squatted untill it sat about level and happily the trailer was within an inch of being level also (that made me happy ). As far as clearence between truck and trailer, I had 5-6 inches, which most would say is about the least you would want. This set up will work fine as long as you stay on fairly even ground and don't get the truck or trailer off camber. The penalty is dented and gouged bed rails. . I've done it to 2 trucks so far, both when parking it at my home .



Third, mirrors. Ihad the factory flip out mirrors on my 2500 and really liked them, you can see well down both sides of the trailer with them. The only thing better is the new power flip out mirrors on my '03 3500.



Fourth, I had no problems with the stock tailgate with the 2500/Tailgator combination on the other hand I can't use the stock tailgate with the 3500, if I do it hits the trailer before the hitch captures the pin



This is not "expert" advice, merely observations from having used the same truck/trailer combination for 2 yrs. I sure hope that you enjoy yours as much as we have enjoyed ours.



Fireman

 

[CoastyAV8R]

Thanks for the replies. Ken, I don't think I am ready for the video camera yet although that's a fantastic idea. I may go with them flipping the axles if I need more clearance. I agree with ya as far as the gas prices, although diesel is quite a bit cheaper than regular fuel here, about . 30 cents a gallon. I love Nevada City, it's such a neat little town. Great escape from Sacramento.

Fireman, I'm glad to hear from someone who has the same trailer. I shopped around a while before we decided to get this one. So you didn't have to lower the rear of the truck or flip axles to get "decent" clearance. Did you dent your bed rails with the truck/ trailer clearance at 5"-6"? If you did then that really makes up my mind and I'm gonna swap the axles. I can get a little overzealous parking our trailers and sure enough I'll dent the bed rails. I'm gonna hunt around for some of the flip up towing mirrors as well. I would love to get the electric flip up mirrors from an 03' but I'm not about to attempt retro fitting them to my 01', I'll just deal with adjusting manually. The weight of your trailer, is that the actual weight or is it something that Keystone put out? I am very interested in the actual weight of this thing. Do you have an onboard generator? We went for that after a few years of me having to fire that rascal up in the middle of the night. What kind of mileage are you getting with it? I imagine around 10 mpg. Thanks again for the help, if ya think of anything else, chime in again.



Pat

 

[Fireman]

OK Pat,



Let me see if I can cover all of this a little more clearly.



On the issue of clearence,5-6 ins. should be sufficient. My problem is that my street is too narrow and has drainage on either side, so when I have the trailer turned at a pretty good angle to the truck and one of the trucks front wheels drops over into the ditch... . I have contact. If you look at the back of the pin box you'll see it goes up at an angle, so if the truck leans too much (and it takes a good bit) the back of the pin box will contact the bed rail. This is the only place I have had this problem, and I am trying to eliminate it by removing a tree and widening my drive. As for an "axle flip" that is what I need to do since I have this new truck, BUT... that will increase the steepness of the ramp and the breakover angle at the top of the ramp. That probably wouldn't effect you with dirt bikes, but my lowered street bikes will just barely get over the top of the ramp and having the ramp too steep would create extra difficulties loading a 700# bike.



I rolled onto the scales two weeks ago and grossed 19000# . We didn't have the bike with us, but we were loaded for a long weekend. We had all of our gear a good bit of firewood in the garage and no water in our tanks (and that can carry a whole lotta watta) and no genset. Steer axle 5020#-drive axle 5640#-trailer axle 8320#. If you deduct 3400# that the drive axle of the truck weighs without the trailer from 5640# you get a pin weight of 2240#- then add that to 8320# of the trailer axles and you get10560# trailer weight. If you were to fill the tanks you would add over900# of water, a genset would go a couple of hundred# you would be about 500# away from the trailers GVWR, unless you have the heavier axles.



As for mileage, you should be able to get 10 with your '01 2500.



As for mirrors, I don't know how hard it would be to retrofit the electric tow mirrors, it my be simple but I understand that getting them right now my be the most difficult part. Check out Geno's, they have some CIPA electric tow mirrors that look pretty nice.



I hope that you can understand all of this, cuz it's the best I can do with my 6th grade education



Fireman

 

[klenger]

The '03 towing mirrors will not directly fit the 2nd gen trucks. It can be done, but you need the parts of the 2nd gen towing mirrors that attach to the truck, and the part of the '03 mirrors that have the mirror head, and combine them.



One of the members here has done it, and I have posted the instructions on my website at http://www.klenger.net/dodge/heated-towing-mirrors.html



If you don't already have the non-power towing mirrors, you need to buy two sets, which isn't very practical. you might be able to find a set on ebay.

 

[RustyJC]

Based on our experience ($700 to have bed rails repaired on our previous 3500), 6" clearance at the bed rails is the absolute minimum I would want - 8" to 9" is better.



If you're going to spend the money to buy 2 sets of factory mirrors, I would look into the heated, electrically adjustable, electrically extendable/retractable towing mirrors available from Powervision as an alternative. We have them and really like them.



Pat, you never did say if you have a 2500 or 3500, but please note Fireman's real world weights, even without his bike(s). He is at 10,660 GVW on the truck - over the 10,500 GVWR rating for pre-3rd generation 3500's (2wd, anyway - not sure about 4wd) by 160 lbs and over the 8,800 GVWR rating for pre-3rd generation 2500's by a whopping 1,860 lbs (over 20% overloaded).



Rusty

 

[Fireman]

Rusty,



While it's true that I am at 10,600# in my 3500, the 2500 that I used to tow with weighed 1300# less than my current truck. So the GVW on the 2500 was about 9,300#, or about 500# overweight. We ran about 17,700 GCW with the 2500 , or about 1,700 over weight.



Fireman

 

[DLBurns]

Fiver and Mirrors

I'm glad you asked these questions... I am also trading yp to a fiver. Going to go with a Hitchhiker II LS 32. 5. . it's GVWR is 13,400 pounds. I am a little concerned about that much weight. My old buddy Blair tells me not to worry about it ( wish I had his confidence )

As for tow mirrors, I went with the CIPA's. they bolted right on and it took me about 1/2 hour to install them. They are electric adjustable and heated but you have to extend them out manually.

I have no problem seeing down the sides of my 26' TT with them.

Dave