New axles for 5th wheel--anything else?

[gbraden]

My almost new Keystone Laredo 27RL 5th-wheel, which is still under warranty, has worn out the tread on both left side (driver side) tires in less than 3,000 mi. Customer Service at Keystone said, based on my description of the situation, that perhaps they need to replace the axles. I have an appointment to take the trailer to a service facility in a few days. If it turns out that new axles are needed (would be replaced under warranty) is there anything else I should replace at my expense? That is, should I ask what would be the cost to upgrade the axles to stronger ones? Should I consider upgrading the mounting shackles, links, etc. ? Should I consider having the brakes, wheels & tires upgraded from 15" to 16"? Or should I save the money and figure the factory equipment, from a safety standpoint, is good enough?

I have not had a chance to weigh the trailer, but here are some numbers from the nameplate:

GVWR 9,950#

GAWR (each axle) 5,080#

Tires 225-75R15 Load Range D

Rims 15x6

Thanks in advance for your suggestions.

Glenn

 

[Turbo Thom]

Just my opinion, but the axles you have are to light for anything except a boat trailer. Not a large boat at that. The 15 inch wheel should not even be on an RV to my way of thinking. If you can go to 6000 lber's, do it with 16 inch wheels. My Teton has 7000 lb axles with G rated 16 inch tires. That I like.



They will not want to install larger axles because it will take different hangers which will mean cutting the others off. Just more work for them.



. . Preston. .

 

[Jerky]

I agree with Turbo Thom, if you plan on keeping your trailer upgrade while you have the chance. I only blew one 8 ply 15" tire this summer. Blew two last summer. I am now going to upgrade my trailer to one with 16" wheels. I now carry two spares when I hit the road. Dean

 

[Helohauler]

I have a '96 31 ft Lumastar, GVWR=10,500#. I had 7 failures with those good-for-nothing 225SR15's and had some serious damage to the RV from one of them. I have since upgraded to 16 inch wheels and am using Michelin all steel carcass XPS ribs. Also "flipped" my axles for better clearance. All works like a charm and well worth the bucks. I no longer wait for the shoe to drop when towing.

Happy trails!

 

[GaryCarter]

Since you mention shackles, I take these are conventional sprung axles? If you want to spend some money but get a MUCH improved ride you could change to torsion axles.

Make some time to visit the scales... mfr. ratings sometimes stretch the facts.

Actually with tire and axle ratings over your GVW, you're better off than many rigs. A lot of rigs are set up so the axle ratings are only enough for the axle weight and the GVW=(axle weight + pin weight).



FWIW I've got about 60,000 miles in towing our fiver with the 225/75/15. Trailer weighs in at 8,000 with 1,700 on the pin and 6300 on the axles wet and loaded. Normally running 70+ on the interstates. Zero tire problems. I know a lot of people have had problems with that tire size and there were a rash of bad tires a few years back.



Mike

 

[CCutshaw]

Glenn, I have a 92 27. 5' rear living room Jayco still running the same tires it came with 15" 50 PSI air pressure. Does your trailer have a large slide out on the left (driver side)? That could explain your tire problem. Just a thought.

Calvin

 

[Jumbo Jet]

I have a 2003 Laredo 29BH with the slider on the left. My log book shows 11,385 miles. The right rear tire showed a little more wear on the outside edge so I swapped it with the spare. Same 5,080 axles and Chinese tires that came on it.

 

[RustyJC]

We went through the tire failure (tread separation) scenario with the 15" Goodyear Marathons on our 1996 30' Jayco Designer 3030RKSS 5th wheel. Our 2000 36' Jayco Designer XL 3610RLTS came with Dexter 6000 lb axles and Goodyear LT235/85R-16E Wrangler HT tires. Although I never failed one, others did, so I changed them out to the all steel Michelin XPS Ribs - never a problem.



Our current 5th wheel (see signature) has Dexter 7000 or 8000 lb axles (GAWR is 7000 lbs per axle, but that may be a tire limitation - I haven't crawled under the 5ver to check the actual axle dimensions), Mor-Ryde equalizers and all steel construction LT235/85R-16G (yes, load range G) Goodyear G614 R/ST tires. No problems at all even towing 70 MPH on the Interstate in 100+ degree Texas weather.



If in doubt, go with all the axle and tire capacity you can get!



Rusty

 

[rweis]

I have an ALFA Ideal 2004 that weighs 12200. I am looking to upgrade the brakes to electric over hydraulic. Dexter makes the axles and has the electric to hydraulic upgrade kits.



If I were going to change axles I would get an axle that would EASILY handle the weight, 16" wheels so you can use the higher load range tires (match the wheels to the higher load range tires), and has the ability to convert to disc brakes IF you want to ie check the axle manufacturer and see if they have the option if you want to take it. Additionally the comments about Mor-Ryde equalizers or some sort of shock / equalizer system.



I have Dexter 8k (have higher weight range and can disc brakes etc) and only came with a lube fitting in the main shackle pin which I have had the other shackle pins changed out for ones with lube fittings.



All things to think about



Bob Weis

 

[macdaddy]

G Braden

I am getting ready to do an upgrade to my 99 Terry 30' TT Toybox. Like yours I have 15" wheels with 225 "d" range tires. I broke a spring last sunday coming home from a weekend in the desert motor cycle riding. The Toybox weighs 10K loaded ( weighed at scales ) and will be upgrading to 5200 lbs axels with 8 lug 16's and load range "E" tires I found a place here near me in Santa Fe springs Ca that will to the labor and the measureing . they refered me to an axel builder in Montebello. I was amazed at how low the cost is to do the up grade.



Axel's (5200# w/springs and mounting hardware $378. 00 per axel) no wheel so or tires. Labor will be $400. 00

AS for the wheel and tires you can pretty much to your own pricing. No more Mike Thompson RV in Santa Fe Springs Ca. Get this, those blood suckers wanted $800. 00 to only put springs on the existing axels :-{} so now I have to figure out a way to get the trailer 5 miles down the road with a broken spring

Let me know if youd like to hear how it works out!!.



05 3500 4X4 Laramie DRW 325/610 6 spd 4:10's came in 10/30/04

Sold 99 3500 4X4 SLT Laramie 53 block :{

99 Terry 30" toybox 10k TT.

 

[CCutshaw]

I think Glenn has a weight issue with the left side of his trailer. My point is before you start throwing parts at it understand the problem. Weight the trailer not just the total weight. Put the left tires on the scale then compare that weight to the right side. I think he will be suprised with the results.

Calvin

 

[rweis]

I read somewhere that if you had to have an emergency spring for only a short distance and you can totally control the speed etc that you could block up 2x4's between the axle and the frame and strap them together.



Obviously you are in a degraded mode and as slow as possible with the highest safety as possible, but might work for a couple of miles.



The comments about weighing both sides independently are excellent comments. I thought all you had to do was weigh the total trailer with and with out the tow vehicle until out of couriosity I weighed each wheel. Then I really knew where the weight load was and it was anything but even.



Bob Weis

 

[juicedcummins]

Many RV builders give you a decent axel # but still put way too light of spring under them.

My trailer has a gvw of 12k. It is a 30. 5ft double slide Kustom Koach built by the travelair line with factory 8 bolt wheels. The axels are dexter and they are rated at 7k. Would you believe that this trailer had 3k springs under it!

I found this out the hard way when I pulled a tire to do the bearings and noticed the front springs were both broke on the front side. I was under it a couple of weeks before and things looked good then. I dragged it into a spring shop that I deal with and they were speachless at the size of the factory springs. We had to get a set cutom built [did all 4] and put on 7k springs. This trailer never handled this good before and all our stuff stays put. This is a good thing because I run @ 70mph min and drag a 2k boat all over the north[ 95% is on 2 lane roads. ]

 

[bombero]

Food for thought: If they replace your axles with ones that have the same bearings, brake shoes ect. I would try to keep the old parts. Never know when you could use them.

 

[HBarlow]

A friend of mine bought a new Montana 30. 5 5er w/2 slides a couple years ago. It was also built by Keystone. He had only had it a few months when he began blowing OEM Goodyears in size LT225/75-16. He replaced all four with LT235/85-16s but the wheels are still six lug and probably underrated for the loads and tires he now uses. A few months later a spring broke, also on the left side. He replaced the broken spring and went on. On his trip home he stopped by to visit me for a few days. On my backyard pad I crawled under the trailer and inspected the axles and found he had 5200# Dexters, inadequate for the weight. When he got home he replaced all four springs with springs for 6000# axles. I couldn't talk him into replacing the axles also. Obviously the manufacturer equipped his trailer with underrated wheels, tires, axles, and springs.



A few months ago I bought a used 5er (see sig). It is a tandem axle trailer. I immediately noticed that the gap between tires on the left side was narrower than on the right side. I had Southwest Wheel (local) replace the brake backing plates, all four springs, shackles, hardware, etc. (surprisingly cheap insurance) When Les lowered it back down on it's wheels I measured the gap again. Still narrower on the left side. We also noticed that the trailer listed slightly to the left on his concrete shop floor. I took it to a public scale and weighed it. I found the left axles are carrying a little over 6000# while the right side axles are carrying just over 5000#. (Two slides, both on the street side plus refrigerator, water heater, and a pantry) I suspect many 5ers have a similar weight imbalance.



Due to the design of the crude old-fashioned leaf spring suspension assemblies most RVs use, as additional weight compresses and flattens the springs, tandem axles move closer together. This occurs because the front axle is attached to the trailer by an eye at the leading end (front) and the trailing end of the rear axle is attached to the frame with an eye also. Conversely, the trailing end of the front axle and the leading edge of the rear axle are attached to a rocker device (don't know proper name). When the springs flatten under weight they can only move one direction, toward the rocker. This allows the axles to move toward each other as much as an inch when the springs are fully loaded.



I took the trailer to a spring shop and had an additional leaf fabricated and installed on the left or heaviest side. This raised the heavy side back to level and widened the gap between tires on the left side. Not a real scientific fix but probably good enough. This trailer has 7000# axles and weighs 14,500 including pin weight. Southwest Wheel will replace the entire suspension with torsion axles for less than $1500. I may eventually do that.



Harvey

 

[macdaddy]

Alright guys i got the wounded BEAST down to the spring shop located here in so Ca (Bette Spring INC) in Santa Fe Springs Ca These guys are great Hector in particular. We crawled under the ol toy toter and after taking a #%&* load of measurments we decided not to go with the complete retrofit due to the fact that this is a standard tow type trailer and slaming home the 5200# axels would just make the trailer sit too high.



It would have required the springs to be installed with the axel on the bottom there by raisine the tonque approx 3. 5in higher. After taking the ol tape measure to the hitch it just wasnt going to look right going down the road. Now I'm not sure what weight rating the axels are I will say that what H Barlow said in his thread about the springs flattening had indeed happened to mine. This caused both of my outter most rear springs to fail :{ . No wonder in that this trailer sees around 5 to 6K miles per year since 1999.



So what this has all boiled down to is that we will be replacing all four springs with custom made springs. They will go from the existing four stack design to a evenly matched six stack design and with a much thicker springs. Along with the revised springs I will be installing 15" Load Range "E" 10 ply tires my tire and wheel guy hooked me up with. Now if any members are interested in this brand and type of tire let me know and I'll get the Name for you.



05 3500 4X4 Laramie DRW 325/610 6spd ame in on 10/30/04.

99 3500 SLT Laramie DRW 53 block :{

 

[Turbo Thom]

I must a say congratulations. You have found something nobody in all the years I've been towing has found. 15" E rated tires. I know the spring fellow thinks he correct, but with heavy spring and 2 more to boot, the harshness with you trailer will ride and abuse it will take will tear it up. If you are going to do that, install air ride on the trailer. Your trailer is going to bounce like a basket ball.



And the only axle under the 5200 lb is a 3500 lb. That is a small boat trailer axle. You have to have 5200 under there. Surely you do. Hector may be a bueno amigo, but esta mucho problema para te. Think this over again.



. . Preston. .

 

[macdaddy]

Turbo Thom

Thanks for the info, but I've been checking out some other friends trailers with similar sprig set ups and this is about par. And yes they are 52 honey's working their little hearts out under my lil toy totin beast. Turb I have to tell you this thing is all 10K, and as far as the lil toy toter that could bouncing like a basket ball down the road we will soon find out, I can always remove a spring if I find the ice box, microwave and cabinets laying on the floor . But I would rather start here than to start off wimpy You can tell I believe in going big. (at least as far as the truck is concerned).



05 3500 4X4 Laramie DRW 325/610 4:10's 6 spd new on 10/30/04