New crossmember substandard welds

[brods]

08 Dodge minivan crossmember arrived. The pictures speak for themselves. No wonder the "Made in United States of America" text is so small, I wouldn't want to take credit for this abortion either. If I fix it I'll have to submerge the crossmember in paint or other protectant to recoat where the paint on the inside gets burned off. I was planning on doing that anyway to try to buy some more life out of it before it corrodes away like the original one.

 

[RVTRKN]

Did your last one corrode and fail or was it that the welds failed? If you weld on it first, then go to install it and their Jig was off, and it doesn't fit, then your stuck with a nice welded POS. At least fit it in first to make sure the attaching points are true, then weld it. I agree, it looks like an apprentice welded it, but this is why I wont buy American cars anymore. Even our beloved Ram/CTD is having issues, the 2014 Ram 2500CTD my company bought for my service truck, was bought back by Ram. With only 68K on my 07 , it does't look like I'll be buying another.

 

[brods]

It rusted and cracked by where it mounts to the body. I patched it on the car but figure the rest of it is probably in bad shape too.

Yeah, first day on the job and using a spray gun (mig) to just hose the welds on.

 

[TFucili]

I wonder who Supplier 10235A is? That is some pitiful workmanship.

 

[JR]

That looks more like poorly applied sealant than weld....I'm even more surprised it was hand welded. The 3rd picture looks like the slag didn't even get knocked off. If that's actually weld that's just horrible!
If you can afford the time, I'd try n return it for a better member. Try to talk to someone on the phone and let them know your issue with it. If you do decide to weld it yourself you'll have to go slow. TIG would be optimal as it puts the least amount of heat into the steel. Stamped parts like that warp easily. It was almost definitely welded together in a jig.

 

[jgillott]

I am not the person to be giving advice since I keep my vehicles way too long. However, this is the exact reason I am so disgusted with vehicles anymore. You try to keep something long term, commit to doing the work, and can't even get a quality part to fix them with.

Following Russell's thread on his Jeep and now this post, you start to realize why so many people lease their vehicles for a few years, throw them away, and then start over.

 

[Wayne M.]

I completely and totally agree!
Had a Kia Sportage accompany me on a road trip, so I offered to go over the vehicle, bust the wheels loose, etc so, God forbid we have a problem, we could change a wheel, etc.
well I was so upset afterwards because I was so impressed at this Korean vehicle. High quality fasteners, everything painted nice or plated, nice stainless exhaust. On and on, the MATERIAL quality was so much better than anything I normally work on. I know they had structural issues with crossmembers etc, but they have seemed to step up their game.
I still won't buy one, but the argument is getting harder

 

[brods]

Some good points to ponder. We are not in a good position for the vehicle to be down very long, so once the job is started it needs to go to completion quickly. Seeing all the threaded holes in the crossmember I'm dreading the likely seized bolts during the removal process. Anyhow, here was the reply from the dealer, not much help there:

Our parts are machine welded and could have some minute flaws, it will not impede the structural integrity of the cross member. You can still bolt up the piece with no risk of failure. You could return it but should you do so the next cross member will more than likely have the same results.

I am not the person to be giving advice since I keep my vehicles way too long. However, this is the exact reason I am so disgusted with vehicles anymore. You try to keep something long term, commit to doing the work, and can't even get a quality part to fix them with.

Following Russell's thread on his Jeep and now this post, you start to realize why so many people lease their vehicles for a few years, throw them away, and then start over.

I usually keep em until they are ready for the scrap yard, or at least I used to. Reading about the problems the guys have in the 4th gen forum as well as my son's issues with his 2016 200 shows how dependent on the dealer one becomes with these computer networks on wheels. Leasing so that you always have a vehicle covered by the bumper to bumper warranty is definitely attractive.

 

[jgillott]

Pretty sad when the dealer is claiming that the "Machine welding" has some "Minute Flaws". I'd be embarrassed that your example part is one that will pass quality control.

Well, I guess that just seals the deal though. Just use the part. There is no sense waiting to get a better one.

 

[Tuesdak]

Some good points to ponder. We are not in a good position for the vehicle to be down very long, so once the job is started it needs to go to completion quickly. Seeing all the threaded holes in the crossmember I'm dreading the likely seized bolts during the removal process. Anyhow, here was the reply from the dealer, not much help there:

I usually keep em until they are ready for the scrap yard, or at least I used to. Reading about the problems the guys have in the 4th gen forum as well as my son's issues with his 2016 200 shows how dependent on the dealer one becomes with these computer networks on wheels. Leasing so that you always have a vehicle covered by the bumper to bumper warranty is definitely attractive.

The dealer is NOT FCA but an independent business. I suggest you contact FCA directly about the part and ask them if the robot had some issues that slipped through quality control.

 

[DonFitzwater]

I picked door number 3.....blow it up.

 

[JR]

I've been impressed with our VW every time I've had to work on it. Just last week, I changed the 208,000 mile/16 year old rear suspension on it. Every single nut and bolt came apart with a cordless 3/8 impact. I've wrenched on virtually every corner of this car, it's been a pleasure compared to some of the crap I've had to work on. Not only did they have the corrosion aspect figured out on this car the longevity has been there as well. Most all suspension and steering components have lasted beyond 200k miles. Still have original calipers - and get this - OEM rear pads. Very impressive considering it's lived it's entire life here in the rust belt.

 

[RVTRKN]

Time is money, so the easiest thing is repair it yourself, otherwise FCA will put you through a lot of red tape and and then then send it back, because it is up to standard per some bean counter. By this time you've dug in your heels and will go to the oomph degree to prove your point. I'm the only one that voted to just repair it, time is money.

 

[RUSSELL5000]

We just recently passed on a 2004 Honda Odyssey minivan that we bought new in the fall of 2003. Much less rust than on my 2008 Jeep Patriot. Vehicles have been exposed to identical conditions. To be fair, the motor mount on the Honda failed, the rear electric windows don't work, and the paint is flaking off to the primer in quite a few places. However, mechanics and suspension good at 165K.

 

[brods]

Figured I'd update this thread since I finally did the job a few weeks ago. It went about as could be expected, two captive nuts inside the frame rails broke free requiring the M14 bolts to be cut off and a M12 bolt snapped which had to be drilled out. Some little bolts on a corroded exhaust heat shield had to be chiseled off to replace the shield. All in all it could have been much worse, like if the rear mounting bolt nuts had broke free then a hole would have to be cut in the frame to access them. I wound up installing the new crossmember with the crappy mig welds “as is” since the rest of the body is in such poor condition the crossmember will easily out last it. Anyone in the rust belt should keep an eye on these crossmembers since many other vehicles have issues with them rusting out. I know of some Dodge cars and Ford Escapes that have had recalls for rotting crossmembers. Please excuse my poor picture taking ability and my inability to have the forum software display the pictures correctly.

The previously patched area and the paper thin metal around it exposed after tapping it with a chipping hammer:

The slot just big enough to get a sawzall blade in to cut the (no longer captive) nut plate off what is left of the bolt (picture is sideways):

The nut plate:

The new crossmember installed:

A bonus picture. Shortly after complaining how our Dodges are the worst for rot, the 05 Escape with over 200K had to get in on the action by having the rear right shock tower do this:

Made quite the banging noise as the shock mount was just hingeing on bottom where the fender meets the floor. Seems Ford has an issue with very thick undercoating on the wheel well which allows water to get trapped underneath it and rotting the inner fender away while looking ok from the outside. $200 for a Dorman replacement inner fender and a leisurely weekend to fix it. Rust sucks!

 

[jgillott]

Congratulations on getting this project done. Many people, including me probably, would have given up long ago. Good work and I bet you feel good getting it back to this point.

 

[brods]

Thanks, it is a relief to be done.

 

[jgillott]

Thanks, it is a relief to be done.

If you are feeling bored now that your work is done, I have 2 trucks that have HVAC issues and one that needs a water pump, brakes and ball joints. Feel free to stop over and just start wrenching. .......