Engine/Transmission (1998.5 - 2002) NEW CTD Owner-TDR Member guage / cooldown add-on advise

[rakm]

First post here, brand new member.



I've been researching for a couple of weeks on the best thing to add on to my new CTD to increase long term reliability and have come to the conclusion I should get a FP and EGT guage to start. Anyone have thoughts on this. I'm using the truck stock mostly commuting /occasionally short distance cab-over hauling. Probably going to mount the EGT probe post turbo and wait for 300 to shut down as I'm mainly concerned about premature shutdowns around town. Do you have to drill if mounted post turbo?



Does anyone have any experience with the Westach guages. I've found a dual combo FP(0-16)/EGT and was thinking of placing it in the change holder. Also does anyone have instructions/advise on how to mount the guage there?



Finally, I've seen the turbo lifesaver advertised. Anyone using it and is it a good investment? Is there a cheaper alternative? Maybe one based on temp and not entirely on time? A way to do-it-yourself?

 

[BarryG]

RAKM:

First off welcome to this site, good to see you over here. There is a ton of info here and though the search function has its occassional quirks (or maybe I am just search impaired) it works pretty well and accesses thousands of threads chock full of info.



I don't have first hand experience with the westachs. All I can say about them is those are the ones I was going to use until I ran across the SPA's.



As far as mounting in the change holder someone makes a mount for that location. I believe it is black lexan plastic and from what I have seen looks pretty good. For the life of me I can't remember who makes it. Someone else will surely chime in with that info.



Post turbo installation of the EGT probe will probably draw some oppossing opinions but I am with you, for my needs and the information I wanted that is what I did. You do have to drill and tap for that location as well. It is a little easier than drilling the manifold as all you need to do is drill and tap you don't really need to be concerned about the shavings getting into the turbo since it is post turbo. Although there are several methods for alleviating that problem for pre turbo installation that really aren't hard to do so I suppose that point is somewhat moot. If you look at your turbo downpipe you will see a slight dimple or flat spot on it just above the bend. That is where I drilled and tapped mine. 45k later and no problems. You just need to make sure and use the right size drill bit for the size tap that you will need for your probe. And if by chance you boof it you can always drill out to the next size larger and use a reducing bushing and place your probe in that.



I think there is a temp sensitive shutdown device out there but could be wrong.

 

[rakm]

BarryG:

Hello and thanks for the welcome. I found this shutdown device and it looks very nice. I'm seriously think of getting it as it works off of actual temps. Hopefully the install isn't too difficult... .



http://www.dieselpage.com/iss32.htm

 

[GLASMITHS]

What gauges first?

rakm: What type of transmission do you have?

 

[BarryG]

RAKM:

That is eaxctly the one I was thinking about just couldn't remember the name.

 

[rakm]

Galssmiths:

Auto 47re w/ 3. 55. I won't be doing any major towing but a trans temp is eventually on the list. Right now I'll just follow the directions I've seen so far for the auto's. Commute around town w/ OD off and don't tow under 60 w/ OD on.



BarryG:

Pretty cheap too.

I'm thinking of using it post without a guage as post is really only good for shutdown temps and this device will take care of it for you and putting a pre turbo gauge on for monitoring while driving and towing...

 

[RJOL]

Originally posted by rakm

Does anyone have any experience with the Westach guages. I've found a dual combo FP(0-16)/EGT and was thinking of placing it in the change holder.

Installed Westach gauges almost two years ago. Have a combo boost/egt gauge and a fuel pressure gauge. They have worked perfectly since installing them. I think Geno's has a mounting plate you can buy to install a gauge in the dash.



Here is an old thread that can give you some ideas about the install process. Have fun...



http://www.showmestate.org/stltdr/how-tos/EGT_how_to.shtml

 

[Steve St.Laurent]

I've had an Isspro turbo temp monitor on my truck for a couple of years now. I wrote an article for the TDR on how to install it on a 24 valve truck and also wrote a shorter version for DIS that is on their web page. You can see it at http://www.dieselpage.com/art1199tm.htm . I have mine setup exactly the way you are talking. I have the TTM hooked to a post turbo thermocouple and have a pre turbo thermcouple hooked to a gauge.

 

[rakm]

Steve St. Laurent:

Does the Isspro Temp Monitor have any safety features that will kill power if interupted. Like a foot on the brake or accelerator? Just wondering for security reasons. My luck I'd lock the truck up and go into store while its still running and someone jumps in and drives off...



Also after driving normally(commuting unloaded) around town how long does it usually run before shutting down. I realize you have upgraded considerably so my stock will probably cool down faster or wont generate as high of EGT. Just curious what is on yours on average?

 

[geusterman]

Steve and others: For us more primitive guys who don't write for anybody and will watch our egt guages until the turbo is cool enough for shutdown I would like to know what the differences in temp are pre and post. I have always run post and kept things under 1000 degrees. Those of you with both (there must be somebody) I ask you just what those differences might be. Thanks. George

 

[LSMITH]

I have a turbo temp shutdown installed, the same one Steve has. I would not spend the money to do it again. The idle time hurts fuel economy more than you think. On a tank with more short runs (20-50 miles) it can cost me up to 2 MPG. Other than that it is fine. I bought it at a great price, and like to tinker so I installed it.



I personally think the shutdown temp is one of the overly anal requirements preached on here. I know at least 10 people over 200K miles that just shut it off when they stop with NO turbo problems at all, some of them doing this towing quite heavy. The real danger to shutdown at temps over 400* pre is a cracked exhuast manifold IMO, the turbo will very likely be fine. Bear in mind the guys posting on here are into their trucks, so are way more intensive in maintenance than 90% of CTD owners.



If you worship your truck and are wanting to drive it 500K miles then maybe the shutdown temps will be a factor. If it is simply a cool truck, but still just a vehicle in the grand scheme of things, I would just shut it off after a short idle period.

 

[HC]

Originally posted by LSMITH I personally think the shutdown temp is one of the overly anal requirements preached on here. I know at least 10 people over 200K miles that just shut it off when they stop with NO turbo problems at all... Bear in mind the guys posting on here are into their trucks, so are way more intensive in maintenance than 90% of CTD owners.

If you worship your truck and are wanting to drive it 500K miles then maybe the shutdown temps will be a factor...

Thanks for speaking up (seriously; not just saying this and no double meaning intended).



I can't do as you propose very often, because I do worship my truck, and I do hope to get over 500k. But your comments are well taken, based on factual observations, and will make it a lot easier for me to break my own rules once in awhile when I don't want to keep the neighbors awake at night or need to order at the drive through.

 

[rakm]

LSmith:

You look mostly stock which is where my truck is and probably gonna stay. I actually would like to get lots more than 200,000 out of my truck, thus i'm interested in doing whats right for longevity.



What kinda idle time does the auto shutdown do on average after driving around town normally?



Do you have it mounted pre or post turbo?



Also do you drive around town in OD or with it off?



Thanks for info. .



Ron

 

[Steve St.Laurent]

There are no built in safety features like you listed Ron. You could pretty easily add one by utilizing the brake switch or the clutch switch wired to a normally closed relay powering the isspro box. Then it would be powered up as long as you didn't have the clutch or brake depressed. If someone got in and pressed the clutch or brake then power would be interrupted to the box and the truck would shut off. What does happen is your steering column is locked because the key is out. A couple of times I've jumped in and forgot to put the keys in and started to take off and then went to turn and found the steering locked! Most of the time the truck doesn't run for more than about 30 seconds after turning the key off but when towing heavy loads up grades, etc it has taken up to about 5 minutes before it shut down. A couple of guys have reported on here that their boxes got stuck and would shut down until they slammed a door or something and then it shut down. Myself I don't walk completely away from it until I hear it shut down. I'll start walking away and when I get to the extent of being able to hear the truck I'll wait there until it shuts down if it hasn't already. A note - you have to turn the AC off by turning it to the upper only or lower only vent positions otherwise it will take FOREVER for the truck to cool down and shut off. The AC compressor puts just enough load on the engine to keep it above 300.



Geusterman - it's hard to give a straight answer to that. There is quite a difference between pre and post and it all depends on how you drove in the last few minutes before shutdown, on acceleration it depends on how much boost you are making, etc. On shutdown I find that if you drive normally (ie, normal acceleration, deceleration, etc) right up until you stop that pre and post turbo temps are very close to each other. However, lets say you were cruising at 75 on the freeway and decelerated in gear (downshifting) all the way to a stop and didn't use your brakes much and didn't ever hit the accelerator again after you started slowing down (like pulling into a rest area off the freeway for example) then the pre and post temps will be way different, you may see 300 pre and be at 450-500 post. If you turn your engine off at that point on the pre gauge you'll see the temp rise pretty fast up to close to that post number. On the throttle I've seen two different calculations given. One says at 10 degrees for every 1 psi of boost to your post numbers to get pre numbers. I've also seen it said to add 20 degrees per 1 psi of boost. At one time Diesel Injection Service had a picture of a dual EGT spa gauge on a power stroke where the post turbo gauge said 900 degrees and the pre turbo gauge said 1500! That was at 30 psi of boost btw, giving credence to the 20 degrees/1 psi. I only had gauges on both thermocouples for about a week. Now the post thermocouple is just hooked up to the isspro box so I don't see what temps are shown.

 

[geusterman]

Thanks Steve. Good explanation on pre and post. I ran a post in an 8. 3 250 horse that Bill Heath at Performance Diesel in Ellensburg WA moved up to 400hp (280rwhp) in a motorhome. If I held 1000 degrees post egt temp water and transmission stayed healthy and at 1100 plus things started getting real warm. Those who are post temp can use the auxiliary temps as a guide as well to find their sweet spot, I believe.



The demo you mentioned regarding the PSD shows how quickly one could "lose" it without some sense of what is healthy. George

 

[Dkevdog]

I have both pre and post guages on my truck and after towing hard up a grade, have seen it take as long as 6 to 10 minutes for the post turbo guage to get anywhere near the "safe" 300* mark. The pre turbo temps calm down far quicker.



Kev

 

[LSMITH]

rakm, I am far from stock, but around town my temps are lower than stock if anything. My turbo temp monitor is PRE turbo, but it does not shut off until I get 280*. This is likely about 325 post in most instances from watching the pyro in others trucks.



My idle times after just easing aroud town are at least 1 minute and up to 1 and a half minutes when ambient is up around 100*. After pulling off the freeway for fuel I idle for 2-4 minutes depending on the ambient temp and how far it is to the fuel. Hotrodding around with temps never exceeding 1300* but averaging say 900* for several minutes it will idle for nearly 10 minutes, this would be like pulling a TT up the mountain and stopping to enjoy the view at the top. I have the auto and Steve has a manual, so the large disparity between idle times we see is easily identified. He is able to downshift and pull cold air through the engine where I just "freewheel" to a stop.



I do keep it out of OD most of the time under 45 MPH, but only because I am still running the stock transmission. The TC is sloppy enough that it irritates me, so I lock it in Drive. I lock it in drive at about 1200 RPM and at about 1200 in OD, but do not use a mystery switch. I manipulate the throttle so it will lock on it's own. THIS IS BAD according to all of our transmission gurus, either leave the PCM to make the decisions or keep in in D until you get 55 mph or so. I have a little over 100K miles on my truck, and have driven it this way for over 70K miles, the last 60K miles I have had power levels that are supposed to be impossible for the stock transmission to take. I don't recommend you do the same, but it has worked for me. My transmission will die and they will tell me "I told you so!!, and I will respond "you were right, it only made it 1__K miles!!". All kidding aside, if you want your transmission to live the main thing you do not want to do is baby it around. If you want to speed up give it some throttle and get sped up. If you let it wallow around at low RPM you can damage it easily and not even know. Grandpa the truck around and the transmission will die. Hammer it all the time and it might live. Drive it aggressively but not hard and it will live unless destined for death by poor combinations of stacking tolerances.



This is my take on things, and I encourage you to get the opinions of the various experts we have available to us. I am a case study of one, they have seen hundreds if not more.